4x4Ventures Loses the Plot?

[Mad Manny]

I watch 4x4Ventures occasional - I'm not an avid follower, but if a title piques my interest - I'll watch the episode.

Now the host, Ryan Cocker is a likeable chap, he often travels with Edward Bath, not an easy chap to like & occasionally with Christoff of Get Out, Go! who I also like.

Often when they travel together you'll get the same trip on each guys channel, in those cases I'll watch Ryan or Christoff's version.

Ryan & Ed live around here so I see them often, I bumped into them at my local tyre shop, Ryan was very friendly, but Ed behaved like he looks - spoilt silverspoonist. In fact, he was a bit rude.

Anyhoo, their latest video is about a trip to Gonarezhou. So I decided to watch it - I've never been, but AndreasR & MikePS have & I'd love to go one day.

Well, I only watched until they got to the border before changing channels.

Here's why...

Now I understand you need sponsors & if you are subtle & professional about it, I don't mind a little punting.
Alti did those Ironvan 4x4 trips which was fully sponsored by Ironman, but 'paying the sponsor' was done in a way that was not intrusive, yet you knew who Ironman were & that they were the sponsors.

Even our own Henk of 4WheelinSA is sponsored, but he doesn't ram it down your throat.

So I start watching & Ryan mentions the main sponsors - big punt for Jim Green footware.
Fine, get the prostitution out the way & lets enjoy the trip.
Then he thanks his long list of usual sponsors.
Now I'm getting slightly miffed.

Then he mentions his Patreons.
I'm like FFS Ryan, stand up, pull your pants up & get on with it.

Then there was a few minutes about their Fuel Sponsor.
My Moer meter is now idling in the yellow.

Finally these Soul Sellers get going, then he mentions (complains) that they have to do a 38km detour to get fuel at the Fuel sponsors depot.
My moer meter enters the red.

They arrive at the overnight camp spot (Ntakeni) & he complains that 600kms took all day thanks to delays at the depot.
Talk about the difference between a Hormone & a Whore Moaning!
Jeez Ryan, you sold your soul for a few tanks of fuel, bend over & take it without complaint, boy!
Moer Meter is deep in the red.

So now they are camping, Ryan is all upbeat & positive & I'm relaxing & starting to finally enjoy the episode.
My Moer Meter drops to the yellow...
He tells a few funny stories & I'm finally enjoying the video (10 minutes in).
That's more like it Ryan!

The next morning Ryan outlines the plans, but has to mention that 2 guys from OL (Opposite Lock) sponsors - are coming so he can pay his dues.
My Moer Meter creeps up to the orange.

Then he punts Upat who have given him some Milwaukee Tools, a leaf blower & then a fan.
My Moermeter shoots to the red.
About 14 minutes of my life & most of it has been him doing a Promo for the various sponsors who own his soul.
Then he starts saying how good the battery life on the Milwaukee fan is.
My Moer Meter hits the purple, I get up & change the channel.

He hadn't even left SA & he has lost a viewer.

Ryan - you sold out. You are now just a product bitch. Pity.

[Rechardt]

I can't believe you watch the dribble that comes out of those Cnuts mouths.. but thank you, you have summed it up very nicely above..
Christof is the most down to earth guy.. I like his clips

[AndreasR]

My Moer Meter hits the purple, I get up & change the channel.

Looks like you need a sponsor for a TV remote or a wife to do it for you!!! I reckon your best odds are on a remote.


Also one of my pet peeves. All these product ambassadors but I suppose it’s the new way of marketing stuff. I have actually purposefully not bought stuff because I thought the ambassador was a doos.

I also try not to watch overlanding vides as I would rather experience the scenes myself. I prefer reading about destinations and experiencing the visuals first hand.

[NicoPotgieter95]

I watch a couple of channels on YouTube, some local and also the Australian channels. They all started off by subtly showing their sponsors but lately every episode is one big advert. A while back Ryan's Ford Ranger's motor packed up due to an injector cooking the piston, I immediately thought "ja it's that kak diesel het gets from the truck depot". I daily a Ford Ranger 2.2 for work and at over 300 000km that thing doesn't skip a beat. I enjoy the Ironman channel and get that they will obviously promote their products but at least it's subtle. Cocker, Bath etc all follow the same recipe and if you watch the one you don't have to watch the other. Same for the Ausie 4WD 24-7 channel, I like the guys but all the promo stuff is getting kak. Luckily there are smaller channels who haven't sold out yet.

[HenriSteyn]

You guys can also go watch Andrew Pierre St White stuff if you are bored

[Mad Manny]

You guys can also go watch Andrew Pierre St White stuff if you are bored

Andre, Saint Pierre, White. He actually has immense knowledge, but I struggle with his presentation style.

[jotto]

Yup, on this occasion I could not even make it past the Jim Green ad bit. Watched Ed's samé tour previously - both are usually a bit of a slog to watch, at least Ryan shows more of the surrounds and animals. Ed mostly of himself or his vehicle.
I enjoy most of Andrew's stuff, presentation sometimes are difficult to stomach, but at least the camera work is several notches above the others - not so shaky that you want to kots after 2 minutes.

[Bogaards]

This is an interesting thread and a tricky discussion point.

So I will try to answer it in two ways (from an YouTube Creator's point of view and also from a viewer's point of view).

YouTube Creator (I will use myself as an example).
So firstly I started off my YouTube channel mostly as a hobby (which it still is). I wanted to show people the trails I drive and also how to drive them. So I put a GoPro on the car and drive the trail (a bit boring). So when I got the Fortuner I started putting a bit more effort in it (better editing etc). Along the line you want to improve what you are putting out there. So you start to invest in camera equipment as well as modifying your vehicle to do the trails. Still a hobby, but it is getting expensive now. Luckily you get some view and you hope to reach a point where you are monetized by YouTube. The problem is the 4x4 content does not get that many views in South Africa (if you compare it to Aus for example). Anyway, slowly you get up to the requirements to get monetized. Problem is when you get there the money you get from the Ads is very little (since 2022 I have barley made R9,000 from the adds - just the trail fees over this period is more...). Anyway, you start to hope that maybe someone sees your efforts and would like to work with you. Along the line you also need to upgrade your camera gear (if you are well off it might seem minor, but for me it is a lot of expenses).

So you go on and you need to maintain your vehicle and gear (getting a bit more expensive as you go on). One also realise that if you want to grow more you need to add some travel content. Now this is really getting expensive, okay, so you can just use your family holiday trips? Problem is now a 3 hour drive becomes a 5 hour drive since you want to capture some videos. So not everyone is happy with you. A family holiday trip is already expensive and since you want to put it out there maybe you need to do more trips.

So you reach a point where you want to create content, but you need support. So you start to hope for some product sponsors. This at least help that you don't have to purchase certain items and it give you the opportunity to create content around the product. In my case it does help to create content and answer questions about products I would not have been able to purchase. Now it might seem as if this product is free, but it is not, you are actually now under more pressure to create content to show these products. (Similar to what any TV show would have to do). My argument for product sponsorships is that is has to solve a problem for me and the viewer (so instead of comparing brand X vs brand Y I rather try to show why I have fitted a product and what problem is has solved - that is the way I try to add value).

Still, you dont really generate an income from it (I am not there...), so the next will be to have more commercial partnerships (so suppliers start to pay you to feature on your channel. This now puts in place agreements and most of them will only be for a certain number of years, so you will see people jumping between brands without a valid reason. Next will to be to get funded by your viewers, so they can join you on YouTube (but YouTube takes around 30% of this if I remember correctly) and then there is Patreon (which is better for the creator).

The problem now is that a channel becomes very commercial, and as pointed out it actually gets annoying. Here I would like your input, how would you prefer a creator to handle it? Some creators are much more subtle about it. I agree that it sometimes gets pushed down your throat.

There are also some sharks out there that target your channel for their benefit. I was approached and join up with someone. There were some good ideas, but then it came out that those videos need to start by giving all the credit to this party and they are all over the channel and becomes an advertising platform. I had questions on that and raised it and said but what about the people who joined to see my point of view, I also do want to create whichever video I want and don't want to be prescribed what I should do. I would also be a place where you would not be loyal to companies who work with you. It just did not feel right. when I raised it I get some very nasty comments. So I cut all contact there.

Hope this background help, open to suggestions about the above as well.

My channel is something that hopefully can become something more substantial, but it also have to solve problems and make a difference. Some videos I watch it is all about the creator, which becomes very irritating.

ASPW did a video on sponsorships, he raised some good points. Unfortunately most videos will be a bit biased (therefore my point of rather showing what problem a product solves). It would be great if you can buy all your products, but what you will make from the videos will just not justify the cost). Unless you have large "crowd funding".

Maybe I should do a complete video on the above? Might not do very well, but could be interesting.

[Anthony Forgey]

I'm not really a viewer overlanding videos in general, but I do follow Henk (4wheeling SA) and Christoff (Get out, Go!). I find there approach to be more to my taste.
I dont normally, but I did watch the video Manny is referring to. It was... okay. I think it could have been 50% shorter and still carry the story. I'm not annoyed by the sponsorship punting as much as Manny is.

Adele and I watched the full last episode of The Grand Tour, which was excellent!! That made me want to drive across Zim more than any overlanding video I've watched. So much has to do with the edit of the show.

As Henk mentioned, Youtube is not a great revenue source, especially for pure 4x4 in South Africa, so I guess the natural progression is to accept sponsorships and to give the sponsors air time on your show. Perhaps a level of subtlety in presenting sponsor content in the edit room could improve the MMML (Manny's Moer Meter Level)

[Bogaards]

Lets put it this way, what level of sponsorship will be acceptable and how can it presented in a way to not be annoying?

Most TV shows put it at the end. The problem with YouTube is that people click away very quickly, For normal TV people will click of move away less.

Putting so many adverts at the beginning of a show is actually not a good idea since it will force people to click away which do affect your view time.

[Anthony Forgey]

I think Tyler Thompson has a good recipe.

[Bogaards]

I think Tyler Thompson has a good recipe.

Yes, his intro on the suppliers is simple and short. Dont drag it out that it takes up 5 minutes.

[Mike-PS]

It’s inevitable - you can’t have a viable channel without sponsors. It all comes down to how the creator weaves it into his / her content.
I really like the way Matt Dubber incorporates it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bugger]

Like mentioned

They have to try and create income and viewer ratings
Fine line for some to do

And over the top with some

[BushWacker]

... perhaps make utube videos so advertisers
knocking on your door & not you on theirs ;
subtle support and sincere & committed promotion
is fine but over-whelming plugging , far less so,
and far less effective/successful ...