The Sino Indus Assault - what happened?

[Mad Manny]

About a decade or so ago the Indian & Chinese manufacturers started pouring into SA.
Everyone predicted that we would be swamped by these new cheaper products.
I had my doubts.
What happened?

In this Thread I am going to foucus primarily on double cab 4x4's. But we can touch on 4x4 SUV's too.

The Indians:

TATA
Tata as far as we are concerned, no longer exists.
Their very crap vehicles have all but been discountinued.
They currently only sell ONE passenger car - The Tata Indica Hatch.
That horrid Telcoline (based oin the original Colt) & the Xenon etc have all been scrapped.

Tata is only still in SA due to truck sales.

Mahindra
Alive & kicking & expanding.
They sell a rough & tough Bolero Bakkie in DC 4x4 - R250k.
Farmers would buy it if they weren't making way too much money.

Mahindra also offer:
The S10 Pik Up in DC 4x4 R370k - its basically a nicer looking more refined Bolero with a better motor.
The S11 Scorpio SUV 4x4 RR330k.
The THAR 4x4 for R230k to R300k.

The Chinese:

Many of the original Chinese companies came & went; Geely, Chery, Gonow etc.
Of the early guys only GWM made it... more on them later.

Other Chinese companies came in...

JMC
JMC started as a joint venture between Isuzu & the state of Jiangxi.
Isuzu is no longer involved.
JMC SA includes Changan

They sell a Vigus DC 4x4 for R350k to R380k - it is powered by the 2.4 Ford Puma motor.
We only saw that motor in the Defender Puma, but it was fitted to the Ranger before it was replaced by the 2.2.

They also have a Vigus 5 DC 4x4 for R365k. Same motor.

The Vigus also comes in the old Mitsubishi 2.4MPFi motor - but not in 4x4.

JAC
New arrival JAC.
Sells a bakkie, a light L100 - basically a Hyundai H100 rip off & trucks.
The JAC DC 4x4 is R350k & has a VW1.9 motor.

BAIC
Don't sell any 4x4's

GWM
The most successful of the Chinese motor companies to come to SA & also one of the first to arrive.
GWM sell a Steed5, a Steed5E & a Steed6
GWM Steed5 DC 4x4 R270k - it has a 2.0 VGT diesel.
The Steed5E & Steed6 do not come in 4x4.

Haval
Haval arrived long after GWM - but Haval is actually the parent company of GWM.
Haval ONLY sell SUV's.
The sell a H1, H2, H6, H6 Coupe, & the H9.
Only the H9 (basically a Prado knock-Off) is 4x4.
Haval H9 SUV 4x4 R600k

No chinese vehicle has a Diff Lock. Chiang, the guy who makes diff locks in China arrived for work at 06:02 & was therefore shot.

[XJ Junkie]

As a matter of interest the S11 SUV got the more powerful motor from the S10 Pik Up.

I think the H9 Haval does have DL

[Wave]

Out of all of these the only vehicle I might consider is the JAC L100 for my wife's signage company, seems like good value and is spec'd nicely.

[Mad Manny]

Out of all of these the only vehicle I might consider is the JAC L100 for my wife's signage company, seems like good value and is spec'd nicely.

Let me get this right.
You'd rather buy this unknown, unproven L100 for R230k over the tried & trusted Hyundai H100 for R280k.
Take all that risk over a measly R50k?
Are you nuts?

[ThysleRoux]

Manny, it is actually happening as predicted - many came and went, dumping their crap copies in SA and disappearing or rebranding when it became too hot in the kitchen

[LX]

Isn't Great Wall Motors just another Isuzu?

[Mad Manny]

GWM & Isuzu have nothing in common.

The 2.8 motor in the JAC is an Isuzu motor.

JMC & Isuzu had a lot in common & the old Baodeng/Boarding bakkie was basically an Isuzu.

But GWM & Isuzu - NO...

[Mad Manny]

Foton

Foton came & went.
They had a bakkie which had a Hiluix Copy Body.
They got Cummins to design a 2.8 motor which they then built.
They had a BorgWarner diff or Gearbox.

Everyone said "THIS is the Chinese bakkie of the future".

Then they drove up Baboons. Claiming no damage. No Diff Lock.

Then they carried on driving all the way back to China...

[grips]

I still can remember as a kid my dad and others referring to the first Toyopet Stout bakkies as Jap Scrap. They were under powered and uncomfortable
comparing them with the American pick ups and cars from the time.

The Japanese had American and European backing after WW2. They started of with tech help from mostly the Yanks. First Cruiser were build around tech from the time with the 1F and 2F engines direct copies of the Chevy I6.
The 1200 Datsun were a clone of the Morris Engine as in the Mini. We all know the similarities between the Mercedes and Datsun 2.8.
What did the Japs did right what the Chinese and Indians did not?

They simply strived for perfection and durability. They took the oil pissing Morris engine redesigned and turned it into something worthwhile to give one example. They soon find cult following with their reliable products.

The Sino and Indu`s just dump their shit products here. Seems that the Indu`s are slowly getting their Mahindra's into Pahindra`s. Better Quality but still battle with dealer backup.

In the end you pay for what you get. You will never get a vehicle worth R200 000.00 to equal some in the same range costing R400k.
Saying this I can think of many vehicles from Europa that did not make it and still to this day is of inferior quality.
Daar is `n verkil tussen perde drolle en vye.

[Ricof4e]

Manny, IIRC you purchased a fong kong a few years back. How is the vehicle doing compared to others in your fleet?

[Disco Nic]

Manny, IIRC you purchased a fong kong a few years back. How is the vehicle doing compared to others in your fleet?

It’s dead

[Mad Manny]

Manny, IIRC you purchased a fong kong a few years back. How is the vehicle doing compared to others in your fleet?

I bought a standard JMC Baodeng 2.8 TD.
It's exactly the same as my 2000KB280DT.
Just made with inferior materials (in the same moulds & presses).
Also, the material was often thinner...
BUT!
It did everything it was supposed to until a SBV ran a light & T-Boned it.
I could have had it 100% repaired for R54000.
They offered me R62000 to keep it or R122000 & they scrap it.
I took the R122000.
So I got 100% of purchase price back (after VAT)...

[Ricof4e]

Manny, IIRC you purchased a fong kong a few years back. How is the vehicle doing compared to others in your fleet?

I bought a standard JMC Baodeng 2.8 TD.
It's exactly the same as my 2000KB280DT.
Just made with inferior materials (in the same moulds & presses).
Also, the material was often thinner...
BUT!
It did everything it was supposed to until a SBV ran a light & T-Boned it.
I could have had it 100% repaired for R54000.
They offered me R62000 to keep it or R122000 & they scrap it.
I took the R122000.
So I got 100% of purchase price back (after VAT)...

That's good value for money.

Which brings me to my point: It seems the Chinese and Indian vehicles are good value for money, as long as its kept as workhorses - no frills no bells and whistles.

The moment the Chinese and Indians (bar the mahindra Scorpio) tries to do leisure it goes wrong - horribly. If you go leisure you go full out - you simply cannot try and save a few grand on luxuries.

[Mad Manny]

Had a chat to a Hindian Contractor outside the local hardware store.
He has that JAC that looks like the Hyundai H100 bakkie.
He said he had the Hyundai before, the 2.6i N/A.
He gave the Hyundai to his 'Boss Boy' & bought the JAC.

He says the JAC goes much better, uses less fuel & is much nicer.
The JAC has an Isuzu-based 2.8 TDi (the old 280, but intercooled).

He has done 45 000km & says not only is it better than the Hyundai, it was cheaper.

Personally I'd be reluctant to buy either...

[XJ Junkie]

There’s no doubt that the Chinks have made & exported some bad cars over the years. But they are getting better at a vast rate of knots. The new Havals are evidence of this as they are of a very high quality & have even surpassed some of the Japs. They will do to the japs what the Koreans did by taking their act.

All of the big manufacturers are in China making cars with joint ventures, even the big japs are there. China produce more than a quarter of the worlds car production, but most are absorbed by their home market.

But now that Trump is squeezing their economy, they are bound to look to other markets to grow their economy. So I think it’s fair to expect a lot more Chinese cars in the near future in SA.