K@k Starter
- Mad Manny
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K@k Starter
So, about 6 months ago I hopped into Fearless to drive to the far blue yonder (the Pick n Pay at the end of my street).
When I turned the beautifully crafted key to fire up that torque'y D-4D all I heard was 'Kla-Hinggggg'.
I tried again & that 4 cylinder beast fired up, sipping angel nectar & idling with a throaty burble.
A few days later, after being trouble free for the past few starts, it did it again, 'Kla-Hingggggggg'.
It slowly occurred more & more often, by the time I did the Bots tip in April/May it was up to every 4th start.
Also, where previously it only did it once before starting on the 2nd attempt, it would now, occasionally, do it twice in a row.
'Kla-Hingggggggg' followed by another 'Kla-Hingggggggg'.. .
It now does it almost every 2nd time I start it.
Not being a complete idiot, I guessed it may be the solenoid or bendix.
Well, in accordance with the 'Manny Doctrine; (read here: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1522&p=35758#p35758 )
My fist step was to pop* into my local Toyota Dealer
Pop* used loosely - going queuing to go through the overly rigorous & unnecessarily slow security at the gate actually took longer than getting the price.
Anyhoo, the Parts guy showed me the price on his screen (because, when he told me it verbally, I told him GFYS!)
R10 400.00
So my next step is to pull the starter & find out what part is actually at fault, the part, most likely to be the culprit, is R1 300 at Toyota.
Has anyone got any other suggestions?
When I turned the beautifully crafted key to fire up that torque'y D-4D all I heard was 'Kla-Hinggggg'.
I tried again & that 4 cylinder beast fired up, sipping angel nectar & idling with a throaty burble.
A few days later, after being trouble free for the past few starts, it did it again, 'Kla-Hingggggggg'.
It slowly occurred more & more often, by the time I did the Bots tip in April/May it was up to every 4th start.
Also, where previously it only did it once before starting on the 2nd attempt, it would now, occasionally, do it twice in a row.
'Kla-Hingggggggg' followed by another 'Kla-Hingggggggg'.. .
It now does it almost every 2nd time I start it.
Not being a complete idiot, I guessed it may be the solenoid or bendix.
Well, in accordance with the 'Manny Doctrine; (read here: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1522&p=35758#p35758 )
My fist step was to pop* into my local Toyota Dealer
Pop* used loosely - going queuing to go through the overly rigorous & unnecessarily slow security at the gate actually took longer than getting the price.
Anyhoo, the Parts guy showed me the price on his screen (because, when he told me it verbally, I told him GFYS!)
R10 400.00
So my next step is to pull the starter & find out what part is actually at fault, the part, most likely to be the culprit, is R1 300 at Toyota.
Has anyone got any other suggestions?
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
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If you can hear it engages-Solenoid kicking in
And it sounding as If it is slipping?
Then it could be the benxix-Small part one way rotation with teeth on that engages with the flywheel
When removing starter try and inspect the flywheel teeth manually and turning the engine by hand for a 360deg inspection for possible ringleader failure
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And it sounding as If it is slipping?
Then it could be the benxix-Small part one way rotation with teeth on that engages with the flywheel
When removing starter try and inspect the flywheel teeth manually and turning the engine by hand for a 360deg inspection for possible ringleader failure
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Syncro Cox Camper
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Millennium Beetle VR6 T Liberty
And a few VW Air cooled Toys
SJ 410 TarzanTiny
Millennium Beetle VR6 T Liberty
And a few VW Air cooled Toys
- Mad Manny
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Fearless is a 5 speed manual....
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
- iandvl
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I doubt it would be the flywheel. Also debatable that it would the solenoid if it is actually engaging. I presume the bendix would be the culprit.
The thread here: https://patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=7051 is how to service a Patrol starter. Yes - it is for a Nissan, but starter motors are generic.
Considering how popular the D4D is, I presume there are a gazillion after market starters.
Perhaps check whether Bosch does these ?
Denki and Euro-something-or-other (I cannot remember the name - Europarts, Eurostar?) also do quality engine/electrical components. And a brand new one from them will probably cost about R4K.
The thread here: https://patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=7051 is how to service a Patrol starter. Yes - it is for a Nissan, but starter motors are generic.
Considering how popular the D4D is, I presume there are a gazillion after market starters.
Perhaps check whether Bosch does these ?
Denki and Euro-something-or-other (I cannot remember the name - Europarts, Eurostar?) also do quality engine/electrical components. And a brand new one from them will probably cost about R4K.
Ian de Villiers
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
- Mad Manny
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Thanks Ian, we are thinking along the same lines.
Considering that, on the occasions that it doesn't go 'Kla-hinggggggg, it starts perfectly, I would also rule out gear damage.
BTW: Yesterday, for the 1st time, I had 3 'Kla-hinggggggg's in a row before it fired up...
I'll pull the starter this week & decide from there.
The Euro... word you are looking for is Euro-Lek.
Starter prices are:
Eurolek - R2 400 roughly
Valeo - R3 600 about
Toyota - R10 400
Seems the D-4D OEM starter is a Bosch, which I find strange, Bosch is German, I'd have thought Toyota would use a Aisin or Denso?
As Stephen Marley sang in the 2017 Pitbull song off the Climate Change Album "I got, I got, I got. I got Options"...
I'll report back...
Considering that, on the occasions that it doesn't go 'Kla-hinggggggg, it starts perfectly, I would also rule out gear damage.
BTW: Yesterday, for the 1st time, I had 3 'Kla-hinggggggg's in a row before it fired up...
I'll pull the starter this week & decide from there.
The Euro... word you are looking for is Euro-Lek.
Starter prices are:
Eurolek - R2 400 roughly
Valeo - R3 600 about
Toyota - R10 400
Seems the D-4D OEM starter is a Bosch, which I find strange, Bosch is German, I'd have thought Toyota would use a Aisin or Denso?
As Stephen Marley sang in the 2017 Pitbull song off the Climate Change Album "I got, I got, I got. I got Options"...
I'll report back...
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
- iandvl
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Corporate incest....Mad Manny wrote:
...
Seems the D-4D OEM starter is a Bosch, which I find strange, Bosch is German, I'd have thought Toyota would use a Aisin or Denso?
...
Seriously, parts get built by the lowest bidder...
Same principle Boeing and Airbus use. Thank me the next time you take a flight anywhere...
Ian de Villiers
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
- Flipside
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I would agree with Ian,
The mud from the Bots trip probably created chaos on the Bendix lubrication. It may even grind the bushes and brushes.
Clean it out properly or have it refurbished.
The mud from the Bots trip probably created chaos on the Bendix lubrication. It may even grind the bushes and brushes.
Clean it out properly or have it refurbished.
Flip
Member: 4x4 AG & Suzuki4x4GP, ORRA AG24
Awesome: Suzuki Jimny;
SilverTank: Mitsubishi Pajero;
Member: 4x4 AG & Suzuki4x4GP, ORRA AG24
Awesome: Suzuki Jimny;
SilverTank: Mitsubishi Pajero;
- Mad Manny
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Problem started long before the Bots trip.
But I'm convinced (or is that 'hopeful' that simply removing, cleaning and refitting will solve the problem.
If not, then a part may need to be replaced...
But I'm convinced (or is that 'hopeful' that simply removing, cleaning and refitting will solve the problem.
If not, then a part may need to be replaced...
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
- Mad Manny
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OK, starter was pulled & as Ian & I (& Grips) suspected - it was electrical rather than a physical issue.
The problem is the top item in the photo.
Toyota calls it 'Starter Brush Housing Assembly" - basically worn brushes.
The other item Toyota calls a "Starter Switch Assembly" but we call it a 'Solenoid'
We decided to replace both (both means 'all two' if you are Afrikaans).
I ordered them from Halfway Toyota Honeydew this afternoon, they should arrive tomorrow (28 days faster than Nissan & Mitsubishi would do it).
Cost: Brush Assembly R630.00, Switch Assembly R2 147,00 Total R2 777.00
Personally I'd have only replaced the brushes, but my mechanic is pedantic.
The problem is the top item in the photo.
Toyota calls it 'Starter Brush Housing Assembly" - basically worn brushes.
The other item Toyota calls a "Starter Switch Assembly" but we call it a 'Solenoid'
We decided to replace both (both means 'all two' if you are Afrikaans).
I ordered them from Halfway Toyota Honeydew this afternoon, they should arrive tomorrow (28 days faster than Nissan & Mitsubishi would do it).
Cost: Brush Assembly R630.00, Switch Assembly R2 147,00 Total R2 777.00
Personally I'd have only replaced the brushes, but my mechanic is pedantic.
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
- iandvl
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You got ripped off, Manny. A brushplate costs about R170 at any Midas. And a solenoid should be a few hundred ZARs.
Ian de Villiers
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
- Mad Manny
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I'll find out what those items would cost, for that starter, elsewhere. If available.
"No one ever got stuck - in mid air!"
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
2010 Fortuner D-4D 4x4 'Fearless'
2006 Conqueror Conquest 'Gearless'
- iandvl
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That brushplate is very much generic. Take it in to Midas.... I dare you...Mad Manny wrote:I'll find out what those items would cost, for that starter, elsewhere. If available.
Ian de Villiers
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
- iandvl
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As a side note: I can walk into a Midas now with my Nissan starter brushes and get replacements. You have to wait 24 hours...
So much for Toyota part availability...
Just saying...
So much for Toyota part availability...
Just saying...
Ian de Villiers
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80
Patrol 4.5 GRX
Jurgens XT65 2x0 with Super Select Zero
ORRA: H80