Stripping TB45E

[jakeslouw]

Can't the TB45 take a small turbo or supercharger, considering the fairly low CR?

[iandvl]

Jakes - the TB45 is probably the most difficult and expensive TB engine to turbo properly. Any mucking around with turbos on the TB45 standard only ends in tears.

I must actually update this thread when I have a chance. The motor is pretty much totally disassembled.

[jakeslouw]

Ian, I assume because of the abysmal non existent engine management tuning capabilities provided by the original OEM ECU?
Surely a modern EFI controller with the correct sensors would allow a more reliable installation?

Anyway, was just wondering if the TB45 could be made to be useful, other than being a boat anchor. I wonder how well that will work in a Datsun Safari?

[iandvl]

Jakes - no - it's not just related to engine management.

Even the TB42 (which is an older motor and probably has even less engine management than a TB45) can be turboed relatively cheaply without the "reliability downgrade" aspect. TB45 con-rods and other internals just cannot deal with the additional torque. To do the job properly, there are a gazillion internals that need to be modified. As I said - it is the most expensive Patrol motor to turbo.

Unless one does it on the cheap. But then I'll probably be able to start another thread like this about a TB45 with a conrod through the block...

Also - there is no way I'd put any other ECU on any TB motor than the OEM ECU. Anything other than the original is a reliability downgrade and will also end in tears.

Seriously, though, the TB45 is not a bad motor in stock form. Whilst it does not have the power of a TB48 or TB42, it is not too much of a slouch and is a very reliable overlanding motor. The hatred levelled against that motor is actually unfounded.

I can comfortably cruise at 120km/h on the open road (this is at just over 2000 revs). When touring, however, I'm not in a rush and normally cruise between 100km/h and 110km/h.

I think that the motor (in stock form) would probably work well on a Safari, which is probably quite a bit lighter than a GU wagon, depending on the gearbox and diff ratios.

The only negative thing I can say about the TB45 is it's "oneindige dors". But then I am sure a lot of people say that about my "oneindige dors" in terms of beer...

[jakeslouw]

I'm a little confused: you say the following:

"Even the TB42 (which is an older motor and probably has even less engine management than a TB45) can be turboed relatively cheaply without the "reliability downgrade" aspect. TB45 con-rods and other internals just cannot deal with the additional torque."

The TB45 is a rebored TB42? Same conrods and crank and push-rods?

[iandvl]

Jakes - you're semi right.

The TB45 has a wider bore (99.5mm) with the same stroke. But I doubt that the con-rods and pushrods are interchangeable. I'll see if I can get a VIN number for a TB42 and check this out on PartSouq.

My experience re: turbos on TB motors are based on various discussions I've had with Patrol forum folk - including several people who:

a: Do the mods required for turboing TB's.
b: Own turboed TB's.

In terms of option "b", there are a number of turbo TB42's rolling around and even a super-charged one. In terms of TB45, I am aware of one reliable turbo charged one. I am aware of a few disaster stories - including one motor which has now received several spares from the motor I am stripping.

In short: There is no way I would install a turbo on a TB45.

[jakeslouw]

The con rods are the same part numbers AFAIK.

12100-VC200 or 12100-26G12

[iandvl]

Right. Just to get back on the con-rod issues. I stand corrected - the con-rods are interchangeable. But, stock con-rods do not share the same part number.

TB45 - 12100VB000
TB42 - 1210003J00

The substitute for both is 12100VB00A.

However, stock TB42 / TB45 conrods are no longer available, and I can not find photographs of them to compare the differences. I am unsure whether the newer con-rod (the substitute part number above) is the beefier con-rod that people upgrade to when turboing a TB45 correctly.

This is a photograph of the newer one. I'll compare it to the ones I removed from this motor.

The push rods - and in fact the entire valve/cam mechanisms differ quite dramatically between the two motors.

In short: Perhaps the original TB42 con-rods were beefier than the original TB45 con-rods. Perhaps the updated substitute part, although interchangeable between the two motors is beefier than the original TB-45 con-rods. There are definitely differences in the push-rods and the entire valve / cam section.

Whatever the reasons, I can guarantee you that I would not turbo charge a stock TB45. Whereas I would consider doing so on a TB42. I've spoken with various people about this matter.

[Mad Manny]

Does Nissan still not have a Parts Department?

[iandvl]

Where does Nissan's Parts department future here ?

[Mad Manny]

"Stock Conrods are no longer available"....

[iandvl]

Manny.... The stock parts - meaning the parts as numbered when the motor was assembled - are not available. Genuine parts are available (this is the substitute part number mentioned above). Parts normally get revised over time, and substituted as it is pointless carrying three different interchangeable parts. I am pretty sure that if you go and get a con-rod for Fearless (for example) the item you receive will not be the "original" part number as / when the motor was assembled. But the standard Toyota worry about parts for things that never break once again amuses me...

[iandvl]

The con rods are the same part numbers AFAIK.

12100-VC200 or 12100-26G12

12100VC200 is TB48 con-rod.
1210026G12 is KA24 con-rod.

[jakeslouw]

"Stock Conrods are no longer available"....

By law, as far as I know, an OEM only has to stock spares for 10 years after production stops in ZA. The TB45 was probably dropped from the South African models some time around 2007. Since so few were sold in ZA, it doesn't make sense for Nissan to keep stock of those parts, especially when one considers that very few of those engines blew up if UNMODIFIED.

[iandvl]

I invoked some of my haxory photos, and have tracked down some photos of the original con-rods as installed on TB42 / TB45 motors as they were assembled.

This is 1210003J00 - the original con-rod for the TB42 motor:

TB42.jpeg (6.46 KiB) Viewed 498 times

This is 12100VB000 - the original con-rod for the TB45 motor.

The TB42 rod appears to be beefier in both the clamp on the big-end, as well as the shaft of the rod leading to the gudgeon pin.

Both parts were superceded by 12100VB00A which just seems to be beefier throughout.