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Best SWB 4x4

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Ricof4e
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Best SWB 4x4

#1

Post by Ricof4e »

I am a firm believer that a swb 4x4 is one of the most capable 4x4s one can get - compared to a lwb 4x4.

This is because of three factors:

1) The further the wheels are apart, the bigger the turning circle.
2) The closer the wheels are, the better the break-over and departure angles.
3) SWB vehicles are generally lighter than lwb vehicles.

But this is not an exact science and should not be taken as a general rule of thumb. For instance, the drawbacks of a swb 4x4 are:

1) They are not as stable as a lwb vehicle when negotiation a steep climb;
2) Small cabins;
3) Usually small engines (power to weight ratio);
4) They roll easily or as much as a Fortuner.

LWB 4x4's may cure some of the issues with a decent lift and a proper set of tekkies, but will never be able to manoeuvre like a swb can.

This got me wondering, what is the best 4x4 swb around? Obviously it is price dependent - a new Jimny will set you back 300k (without any mods) while a new 3door Pajero will cost you 700k. Grnated, these are two different types of vehicles with different levels of luxury and sophistication, but I am pretty sure the Pajero will outperform a Jimny in any conditions.

Take it up 250k and you can look at the new Defender 90. Much has been written of this "Defender" and its capabilities, but the more I read up on it the more it looks like something Posh Spice will take to the farmer's market on a Sunday. I am sure it is very capable and all that, but I can't make peace with paying 900k for a SWB LR.

The other SWB to consider is a Jeep Rubicon - which I will concede probably is the most capable stock SWB 4x4 around, but then again, its up there with the new LR Pretender in price. I guess its why the Jimny sells so well in SA.

As Naas would say, at the end of the day i guess the best bang for buck SWB 4x4 around is either the Jimny or the Pajero. I drove a Jimny and don't get me wrong, its a pretty capable little 4x4. But even with the new model, it still feels a bit cramped and has that Hyundai Atos feel to it. I would, if one can justify the 400k jump in price, rather opt for the Pajero. It's safer, more sophisticated and has the most creature comforts we have become accustomed to. And that 3.2 engine is a peach - 140kw and 440NM on tap, its more than capable enough to sled the Pajero around most obstacles. That would be the one for me.

Which SWB would you prefer? - feel free to add other vehicle makes I didn't mention.
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#2

Post by Renier_c »

I like my H3

Great turning circle
Lots of power with the V8
Lots of space inside
Break over angle is good with the 35” tyres

And have the advantange of a longer wheel base, so steep slopes is better than with a SWB

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#3

Post by Saxj »

Renier_c wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 am
I like my H3

Great turning circle
Lots of power with the V8
Lots of space inside
Break over angle is good with the 35” tyres

And have the advantange of a longer wheel base, so steep slopes is better than with a SWB
It's certainly not a SWB.

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#4

Post by Saxj »

Ricoffy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 am
This got me wondering, what is the best 4x4 swb around? Obviously it is price dependent - a new Jimny will set you back 300k (without any mods) while a new 3door Pajero will cost you 700k. Grnated, these are two different types of vehicles with different levels of luxury and sophistication, but I am pretty sure the Pajero will outperform a Jimny in any conditions.
Under most circumstances they will perform equally well, but there will be some obstacles that the Jimny will do with ease and the Pajero will find impossible, and vice versa.

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KurtG
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#5

Post by KurtG »

I would say that the new Jimny will easily outperform the Pajero all day in most situations because of the following reasons:

It’s much smaller
Shorter overhangs
Solid front axle
Much less Tupperware
It has TC now so equal to the Paj for traction.

It will fail in space, power and comfort on the long run, but off-road, it will win every time.
Flex is overrated

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Mad Manny
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#6

Post by Mad Manny »

A SWB Pajero is far better than a Jimny - except Off Road, where, as Kurt said, the Jimny wins hands down.

A SWB Pajero is not that much smallrer, ito shadow cast, than many short 5 door vehicles.

If you are talking NEW your only options are at Suzuki, Mitsubishi & Jeep.

USED things like the older G-Wagons, the Terrano, Frontier etc. are smaller than the Shorty Paj,
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#7

Post by Ricof4e »

KurtG wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:22 am
I would say that the new Jimny will easily outperform the Pajero all day in most situations because of the following reasons:

It’s much smaller
Shorter overhangs
Solid front axle
Much less Tupperware
It has TC now so equal to the Paj for traction.

It will fail in space, power and comfort on the long run, but off-road, it will win every time.
I don't think so, but if it does outperform the Pajero, it will only be just and only on some obstacles.

1) The Pajero is only 730mm longer than the Jimny and 235mm wider.
2) The wheelbase differs only by 295mm
3) Pajero trumps the Jimny with ground clearance by 25mm;
4) Approach angle is basically the same while the Jimny has the Pajero with Departure angle - difference of 14 degrees in favour of the Jimny.
5) The Pajero has a better power to weight and much much more torque.
6) 17 inch wheels vs 15 inch wheels.
7) 700mm wading depth vs 320 mm wading depth.

Granted, with the solid axle setup a modded Jimny may totally outperfrom the Pajero, but stock standard, I think the Pajero takes it overall - ata whopping R400k more.
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#8

Post by Ricof4e »

Saxj wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:56 am
Renier_c wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 am
I like my H3

Great turning circle
Lots of power with the V8
Lots of space inside
Break over angle is good with the 35” tyres

And have the advantange of a longer wheel base, so steep slopes is better than with a SWB
It's certainly not a SWB.
Wonder if the FJ Cruiser would be regarded as a SWB 4x4?
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#9

Post by LesseW »

I would say a FJ.
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KurtG
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#10

Post by KurtG »

Ricoffy wrote: I don't think so, but if it does outperform the Pajero, it will only be just and only on some obstacles.

1) The Pajero is only 730mm longer than the Jimny and 235mm wider.
2) The wheelbase differs only by 295mm
3) Pajero trumps the Jimny with ground clearance by 25mm;
4) Approach angle is basically the same while the Jimny has the Pajero with Departure angle - difference of 14 degrees in favour of the Jimny.
5) The Pajero has a better power to weight and much much more torque.
6) 17 inch wheels vs 15 inch wheels.
7) 700mm wading depth vs 320 mm wading depth.

Granted, with the solid axle setup a modded Jimny may totally outperfrom the Pajero, but stock standard, I think the Pajero takes it overall - ata whopping R400k more.
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#11

Post by Saxj »

Ricoffy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:07 pm
KurtG wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:22 am
I would say that the new Jimny will easily outperform the Pajero all day in most situations because of the following reasons:

It’s much smaller
Shorter overhangs
Solid front axle
Much less Tupperware
It has TC now so equal to the Paj for traction.

It will fail in space, power and comfort on the long run, but off-road, it will win every time.
I don't think so, but if it does outperform the Pajero, it will only be just and only on some obstacles.

1) The Pajero is only 730mm longer than the Jimny and 235mm wider.
2) The wheelbase differs only by 295mm
3) Pajero trumps the Jimny with ground clearance by 25mm;
4) Approach angle is basically the same while the Jimny has the Pajero with Departure angle - difference of 14 degrees in favour of the Jimny.
5) The Pajero has a better power to weight and much much more torque.
6) 17 inch wheels vs 15 inch wheels.
7) 700mm wading depth vs 320 mm wading depth.

Granted, with the solid axle setup a modded Jimny may totally outperfrom the Pajero, but stock standard, I think the Pajero takes it overall - ata whopping R400k more.
The Pajero's other big disadvantage is that it is nearly twice the weight of a Jimny.

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#12

Post by BushWacker »

Saxj wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm
Ricoffy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:07 pm
KurtG wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:22 am
I would say that the new Jimny will easily outperform the Pajero all day in most situations because of the following reasons:

It’s much smaller
Shorter overhangs
Solid front axle
Much less Tupperware
It has TC now so equal to the Paj for traction.

It will fail in space, power and comfort on the long run, but off-road, it will win every time.
I don't think so, but if it does outperform the Pajero, it will only be just and only on some obstacles.

1) The Pajero is only 730mm longer than the Jimny and 235mm wider.
2) The wheelbase differs only by 295mm
3) Pajero trumps the Jimny with ground clearance by 25mm;
4) Approach angle is basically the same while the Jimny has the Pajero with Departure angle - difference of 14 degrees in favour of the Jimny.
5) The Pajero has a better power to weight and much much more torque.
6) 17 inch wheels vs 15 inch wheels.
7) 700mm wading depth vs 320 mm wading depth.

Granted, with the solid axle setup a modded Jimny may totally outperfrom the Pajero, but stock standard, I think the Pajero takes it overall - ata whopping R400k more.
The Pajero's other big disadvantage is that it is nearly twice the weight of a Jimny.
... if one has 25mm less ground clearance and IFS ... one is more than doubly disadvantaged...
“ Off-road” must also include water features and obstacles and wading depth is important ... often not assumed!
... as are proper boulder beds and rocky causeways etc !
Traction control vs Diff-Lockers vs Ltd-Slip diffs etc not always exclusively better and may be optional add-ones , combo’s.
Petrol vs Diesel motors power and off-road capabilities can also be very relevant.
Highly priced cars with pristine paintwork may have inhibited owners ... (Wessel could be impartial, adventurous tester ?!)
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#13

Post by BushWacker »

Defenders off-road short-comings are generally most notable wrt Dunes, Cross-axling obstacles and steep side-slopes etc
A SWB Defender with traction control and/or diff-locks and a 2.8i or V8 engine ( up to 4.6L!) would make it readily
comparable to the other SWBs mentioned above or on the market today over a FULL spectrum of off-road obstacles and conditions.
For a diesel powered Puma I’m not sure if power-call and response wouldn’t be inadequate,
though diesel motors are generally to be preferred off-road.

A equivalently enhanced D1 or D2 would not be much behind the above, if at all !
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#14

Post by KurtG »

The Defender 90 is more famous than Fortuner’s with respect to falling over.... caution is advised.
Flex is overrated

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#15

Post by Ricof4e »

A Defender 90 has many similarities with a donkey, one of which is the moment it gets on gravel, it wants to roll in the dust.
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