4x4 Action Group

https://m.wheels24.co.za/NewModels/is-t ... p-20190605

Let's see how that goes, if it all.

They want it to be better than the F150

Starting price to be leas than $50K

As this thread has not had a single reply in 18 hours I think we can delete it now![emoji1751]‍[emoji3603]


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Its electric, who the F cares?

I do, because it might give somebody out there the impression that electrickery is socially acceptable![emoji15]

Although this is a discerning bunch of guys who would ignore such tomfoolery, an ignoramus could have slipped in here, after all, non members can still view posts!


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The more I read about EVs, the less convinced I become that they are the answer.

I’m no Yota fan but they seem to be the only ones not jumping on the EV bandwagon. They have the belief that Hybids are far more feasible, which is what I believe.

Being a global brand it would make perfect sense. EVs don’t make sense in hot, cold & 3rd world countries

Spot on Neill, I had the opportunity to drive a mild petrol hybrid yesterday and it was a very pleasant experience!

It sounded like a very sweet internal combustion engine which it essentially is, but it went like a demon!

And the electricary didn’t make me feel vulnerable! This particular car used a 48V battery and 40kW motors which roughly still equates to 900A but it was hidden well in the inner confines of plastic engine covers and more warning signs than what could be contained in the “kinderbybel”

It also didn’t remind me on the dashboard of the state of charge or any of the electricary, there was a wealth of other information on the dashboard and hud to keep this very far away from the user!

It also had something called active driver assist, which will actively keep you in the right lane should you take your hands of the steering, not completely self drive, but you get my drift! I will be honest, although it was fun to play with, it was very unnerving to have a car taking over the steering for you!

I’m not naive of the future, I’m just pleading that we should be more responsible in how we get there!


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So Quack and Neil and others as well.

You are given a EV 4x4. Given. Yours Mahala

What is the single reason you decline the offer? And if they fix that, would you then take it?


I have to also say that I like the Rivian. Its a vehicle I can see myself driving

Mike Nel wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:34 am

So Quack and Neil and others as well.

You are given a EV 4x4. Given. Yours Mahala

What is the single reason you decline the offer? And if they fix that, would you then take it?


I have to also say that I like the Rivian. Its a vehicle I can see myself driving

Gaan jy vir hom lekka rimme opsit?

Mike Nel wrote:So Quack and Neil and others as well.
You are given a EV 4x4. Given. Yours Mahala
What is the single reason you decline the offer? And if they fix that, would you then take it?

The reason would be the same as any other EV, namely range anxiety. You simply can’t charge it out in the veld. I reckon that these 4x4 EVs chew battery power off-road, so the range would be even less.

Jeep are already testing their Wrangler Hybrid which should prove to be interesting. Like the Rivian, big torque would be available from 1 rpm, so it’ll be a beast off-road. Plus you won’t need a dual battery system to be installed! It’s already there.

Another thing, Toyota already have a very comprehensive list of hybrids across its range, including the RAV. So it’s only a matter of time before they make a Tundra hybrid. All the other big truck manufacturers are going this route. The RAM eTorque is already available.

Mike, I have been outspoken against ev’s for various reasons on this and other forums!

My concerns can’t be addressed, unless we change the laws of physics!

So I will never drive one![emoji12] No matter how mahala it is![emoji1751]‍[emoji3603]

My first major concern is the amount of current needed to power an ev, figures of 5kA is not unheard of, bear in mind that 80mA is enough to kill you if applied directly over the heart.

My second concern involves the noxious concoctions that makes up lithium ion cells, now the likes of Tesla hind conveniently behind the term “ion” as it really is the stuff of nightmares, they claim their top secret concoctions to industrial secrets and refuse to divulge further info based on financial success, but the truth is a lot more sinister!

Now both above concerns can be contained in a perfect world, but I don’t live in a perfect world! I live in a world where we have a few toots and we do silly things, some don’t even need a few toots to do silly things and often worlds collide and electricary and chemistry gets exposed to unsuspecting people!

The damage from one fuel tank can be contained within a 100m radius, the damage from 1 battery will flatten a whole village!

Now you might call me a naysayer and a mother grundy, I have addressed these issues at international seminars with both motorsport bodies and the answers from those who are pro electricary is still lacking! We often hear that this is the future and that we will improve on this in time, I believe the risk is far too great to wait for a solution!

Now you might call me a hypocrite, as I’m one handedly typing this on my cell phone which essentially uses the same tech, maybe I am, the risk is 10 000 smaller in the cellphone than it is in an ev!

But let me put into a slightly different perspective, the cell phone is roughly the same size as a 1/24 die cast model, I can take this model and drop it from a two story building and it would hardly scuff the paint! If I were to do the same with a full sized car you will agree the structural integrity will be compromised![emoji15]

My biggest concern with EV’s thus, once their structural integrity gets compromised, they release sparks and fumes, both will kill you in a heartbeat, in fact it will take those around you in the same nano second and even those that race to rescue your remains!



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Great post Quack. Thanks

Mike I cannot leave you all hanging like that, that would just be unfair![emoji12]

Lithium was one of the reasons I had to write matric at the police station! A big chunk taken from the school lab, tossed into the school’s olimpic sized pool was certainly worth the missery of writing in solutude, during 40 days celebrations[emoji1787]

Some of you might even remember doing this experiment yourself, albeit on a smaller scale!

Hell heck, for the sake of repeatability I first tested this at home, a small mistake on my side might have been the omission of noting my dad trying to clean out the weir at the time![emoji1751]‍[emoji3603]

I’m digressing, lithium and water equals fire, a very hot fire! So hot that it splits water into hydrogen and oxygen which causes even more fire! (For the sake of a little melodrama allow me a few scientific inaccuracies, it makes for a much better mental picture![emoji1787])

Ok you get the picture, a ball of molten metal skeeting over the pool, throwing of meteorite showers in every direction it goes![emoji15] With this mysterious vapours rising from the surface of the pool, luckily the atomic mass of hydrogen being less than that of the other ingredients of room air, quickly rises to the stratosphere when it suddenly erupts into a substantial mushroom cloud![emoji15]

At this point we need to do a bit of scientific explanation; the question begs why use lithium, why not any of the other metals in the same column in the periodic table like magnesium or potassium?

The reason is very simple, because of its hierarchy in said table, lithium is a lot more volatile than any of the others! This volatility is what gives it the ability to store huge amounts of energy in a relative compact form![emoji12]

Now onto something a little more sinister, the ion in lithium ion batteries....

Tbc[emoji12]


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Right, lets talk ions! After a huge argument recently in Russia, a group of like minded colleagues cornered the consultant engineer of FIA, reluctantly he relented that mostly the ion in battery equates to some form of fluoride!

Now those of you that grew up in the 70’s like me will remember fluoride as an additive to toothpaste, because it acts as a catalyst for calcification, a little bit of fluoride goes a long way, as a free gas it will go right through you skin and calcify what ever it can lay its grubby paws on, arteries, muscle, even nerves, not a very fussy fellow this fluoride fellow!

Obviously soft tissue has never been designed to be bone and as such things stop working when non bones become bone! Arteries stop supplying blood, nerves stop conducting and what use is a muscle set in stone?

As I said before a little goes a long way, less than a gram is more than enough to kill you stone dead[emoji1751]‍[emoji3603] and it doesn’t even take that long, a few minutes more than adequate for the job on hand! Would you believe that the average battery contain up to 20kg of the stuff?

Right, I’ve lost count of how many opportunities EV’s had so far to kill you dead, but allow me just one more opportunity, remember all those hydrogen that escaped, when the litium hit the pool?

Lithium + Fluouride = Hydrofluouric acid![emoji12]

The most caustic acid known to man kind, I’m not going to bore you guys further, scrolling down to the bottom of any noxious substance list will get you all the info you need on this ugly concoction!

Pseudo scientists in the name of environmentalists will keep convince you that electricary is green and I will consent that no internal combustion engine can beat the linear torque curve of an electric motor!

But lets consider this, despite all the wind turbines in the world, the bulk of electricity is still derived from internal combustion engines!


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Quack were spot on.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/11-ton ... la-austria