Projekt Grenadier

[Mike Nel]

The Grenadier just shows that people still want “old school” vehicles.

[Johannes]

Correct Mike.
I personally like what I have seen, so far.

[icemanza]

Like you wanted a new child, but instead you got two ?

If only I could afford two.

[Ricof4e]

I don't like it and won't buy it for the following reasons:

1) Although it will be a proper off-roader (if the advertisements are anything to go by), it will be priced in the 800k-900k range. It will thus be priced well above those who could afford the previous generation Defender. Furthermore, only a hand few of people will be able to afford such a vehicle as a 3rd vehicle, which similar off-roaders and overland vehicles usually are.

2) They may have tweaked the chassis and the suspension may differ from the previous generation Defender, but I bet it will be cumbersome to drive as a daily vehicle. It will be expensive to run and I don't think the insurance on it will be cheap either.

3) Sourcing parts will be a bitch and if you are able to get parts, it will be expensive - they just cannot mass produce parts with the same cost range as well-known suppliers.

To my mind, the Grenadier will be the same to off-road enthusiasts as a Caterham is to racing enthusiast - for the reasons mentioned above.

[Mike Nel]

Even at a price of R800-R900K I believe people will still buy it. Look at the Price the LR Heritage edition sold for, and that was 2016/2017. Price won't really matter. It just means that you and me won't be able to buy it.

Service and parts will be the main issue here. If they have that sorted, they will be ok.

Ride comfort? It won't be worse than the "real" Defender or the LC 70 series.

Time will tell

[Johannes]

Let me see , there is no BMW spares in Sa ?? Ok. So that a huge problem ??
There is no ZF agents or ZF gearboxes in Sa ??

Agreed !! They should just keep the Grenadier in Europe .

I just wonder why i see so many BMW's on the road ?? There no spares Go check out ZF gearboxes ! Nothing in SA

Oh , no one can afford a R800k vechile

Geez , i must be living on another plannet ??

So , if you look at all of these negatives , go buy a Toyota .

[Ricof4e]

How many BMW dealerships are there in SA? How many BMWs are there in SA? For how long has BMW been and manufacturing cars?

I'll bet its more tha 25k units world wide.

The Grenadier is a niche product aimed at capitalising on the nostalgia of the previous gen. Defender. Much the same as Caterham did with the Lotus 7. It doesn't mean that it will be a kak 4x4, in fact, much the same as the Caterham it will be brilliant for its intended purpose.

As a mental exercise, use google and try and locate Caterham parts is Southern Africa. Check the prices compared to known brands and the estimated time of delivery.

As to your last comment, I'll have a Toyota any day of the week over a Grenadier - for the reasons alluded to above. When I am driving my Toyota in the middle of Africa, and an axle breaks, I know I will be able to source the part within a 100km radius.

[Mad Manny]

Look, they will have to set up a dealer network on each country.

It may be easier to partner with someone with an existing dealer network that they are not in competition with - like BMW.

But they can also set up their own network.

In SA Toyota has nearly 200 dealerships, but guys like Renaukt and Haval have less than 60.

Porsche only has 2 - one in JHB (which is the biggest dealership under one roof in the world outside Germany) & Cape Town.

So they could just set up a dealership just outside each of our 8 Metros.

But I suspect t they partner with an existing manufacturer.

[icemanza]

How many BMW dealerships are there in SA? How many BMWs are there in SA? For how long has BMW been and manufacturing cars?

I'll bet its more tha 25k units world wide.

The Grenadier is a niche product aimed at capitalising on the nostalgia of the previous gen. Defender. Much the same as Caterham did with the Lotus 7. It doesn't mean that it will be a kak 4x4, in fact, much the same as the Caterham it will be brilliant for its intended purpose.

As a mental exercise, use google and try and locate Caterham parts is Southern Africa. Check the prices compared to known brands and the estimated time of delivery.

As to your last comment, I'll have a Toyota any day of the week over a Grenadier - for the reasons alluded to above. When I am driving my Toyota in the middle of Africa, and an axle breaks, I know I will be able to source the part within a 100km radius.

Toyotas have to have dealers all over because they always break down. Just no one ever talks about it. Landrovers axels don't keep breaking. They just leak oil.

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[icemanza]

Let me see , there is no BMW spares in Sa ?? Ok. So that a huge problem ??
There is no ZF agents or ZF gearboxes in Sa ??

Agreed !! They should just keep the Grenadier in Europe .

I just wonder why i see so many BMW's on the road ?? There no spares Go check out ZF gearboxes ! Nothing in SA

Oh , no one can afford a R800k vechile

Geez , i must be living on another plannet ??

So , if you look at all of these negatives , go buy a Toyota .

But a Toyota 200VX is over R1.5mill and there are crap loads around. So if people can't afford them who is buying them? I used to take my over a million D4 off road and in trails so the argument of even if you can afford it no one is going to take it off road is also a stupid comment.

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[BushWacker]

The Grenadier will have to survive the usual gauntlet of launching into a market with a lot of barriers to entry:
exclusionary import taxes,
no spares and support back-up,
avoiding further legal assaults by Land Rover,
achieving critical mass sales in early years to achieve payback & going-concern status,
keeping costs down to competition levels like Toyota’s, Jeeps, Nissans, Defender refurbs, G-Wagons etc (<R650k ?)
Etc etc. and it will have to be a good Jeep, hardy, capable, reliable etc
It will be years before we can know/believe that ...

Defenders are the product of 70 years of evolution... a lot of changes, improvements since Series 1 in 1948...
and they were developed into the latent demand of the British and other armed forces and a huge farming community, there was little competition in those early launch years - unlike now...

The Grenadiers best hope of success would have been to plant a Toyota motor in the bay for immediate market credibility & acceptance, and a huge spares support network worldwide & towns big & small.

Many nostalgic Defender aficionados and ‘wann-alike‘ folk will turn to available and contrived vehicles:

Jeeps, Toyota’s etc
Refurbed Defender 2.8i s or 300TDis ( ‘Kanniedood Defenders’ Pumas, or Heritages) with Toyota (1 Hz or 60 Series etc ) or other engines, even Jimny's dressed up for the bush in Defender camo kits !

It won’t be easy ...

[Mike Nel]

The Grenadier is so close to dammit to a Defender. Yes they made a few changes for the better, but I am almost certain that some of the Defender parts would fit the Grenadier.

[Apocalypse]

Grenadier doesn't need to sell millions of vehicles.

in fact, they won't want to as they won't be able to deliver.

A selection of straight 6 BMW motors - petrol and diesel - means some good performance out of the box, and things like the outgoing AMG Gwagon and the Wrangler prove that you can have some pretty serious performance on a live axle truck off the showroom floor.

and that people buy it, even at a premium.

I note that Jeep just leaked a pic of a Wranger with a 392 badge on the hood bulge. and that's not just about the Bronco I don't think....

[XJ Junkie]

Defenders are the product of 70 years of evolution... a lot of changes,..

It won’t be easy ...

That’s funny

[Onwards]

Grenadier doesn't need to sell millions of vehicles.

in fact, they won't want to as they won't be able to deliver.

A selection of straight 6 BMW motors - petrol and diesel - means some good performance out of the box, and things like the outgoing AMG Gwagon and the Wrangler prove that you can have some pretty serious performance on a live axle truck off the showroom floor.

and that people buy it, even at a premium.

I note that Jeep just leaked a pic of a Wranger with a 392 badge on the hood bulge. and that's not just about the Bronco I don't think....

Have seem the tv ad, teaser for the Jeep.

Chasing a bunch of wild horses around. Sort of play on the Bronco ad.