TJ versus Patrol: help me decide

[jakeslouw]

I'm not normally ambivalent or indecisive, but this thing is bugging me.

We want to buy a bit of a banger, do some light mods and brand it for the brewery.
Price class in both cases would be between R80k and R100k.

We've sort of gotten the list down to:

- Jeep Wrangler TJ : indestructible but thirsty 4.0 I6, probably the auto box as the manual was scarce here.
- Nissan Patrol Y60/61 (GQ and GU for the purists): TB42 4.2 or TB45 4.5 I6 options. Will see what box is available, but probably the FS5W manual?

Mods in both cases: minor lift, bigger tyres, maybe some underbody armour. LOTS more available for the Jeep. Much less for the Trol.
Branding: simple vinyl wraps

Long term considerations:
POSSIBLE turbo diesel conversion : easy on the Nissan (RD28T, TD42, QD32, maybe even a tweaked TD27), not so much on the Jeep. If you know of anything else available that has a reasonable budget engine as power source, please pipe up.

OK, now give it to me. No comment will be discounted or dismissed (as long as it isn't personal and refers to my sanity).

[iandvl]

Jakes, I think you're probably going to get a lot more bang for the buck with a Patrol.

That said, I'd be careful of chucking in a smaller diesel motor. Some of them can make crazy power, but the vehicle weights 2.5 tons. I think one of the reasons for the "hand grenade" issue with the early 3L diesel Patrols was that thing about "no replacement for displacement". I'm even wary of the newer 3L Patrols. I honestly feel a smaller diesel motor is a "reliability downgrade" - no matter how much power you're pushing out...

A turbo'ed TD42 is awesome though. Chat with your colleague - Christo. He has recently had additional work done on his with a front-mounted intercooler instead of top mount and he is very happy. That vehicle of his is a beast and he is not even close to boosting what some of the other Patrol folk are boosting.

Aftermarket, there is presumably much more stuff available for the Jeep, but most of it at premium$$$$.

But I'm not totally sure exactly what you're after mods-wise.

Lift kits, dopboxes, swaybar extensions and a whole bunch of supension-related things for Patrols are readily available here in ZA.
Also diff ratio kits has seen several of the Patrol folk migrating to 37" tyres. These are all TD42 and TB48's though. Even with a diff ratio change, I'd not look at doing any larger tyre size than 33" with a TB45.

For replacement bars, Summit 4x4 make very good replacement bars - front and rear. Peter Connan does awesome under-armour for the Patrol. Diff guard, tranny guard and bash plate. He also does rocksliders, although I opted for StofPad sliders on mine.

Tinus on the Patrol forum normally knows of most Patrols on the market in the country on any good day. He also has a stack of parts, spares, racks etc. If you want, I can PM his number to you.

Good luck. Whatever the choice, please keep us updated here.

PS: On some other forum, far, far away, I'd have suggested a second hand Pajero...

[Mike Nel]

Both good options.

Flip a coin.

The mods on the TJ would be less as you said on the Jeep. More money for beer then

[Saxj]

The Jeep 4.0l motor is indestructable, it's the rest of it that is a problem. When I had my Cherokee (XJ) I spent as much on maintenance as I did on fuel. At 18l/100km average doing 30000km per year, it ends up being a lot of money. However they are easy (not cheap) to modify.

If you are wanting to build an off-road toy, the Jeep is probably a better option than the Patrol.

[HenriSteyn]

I personally would do the Patrol from a reliability point.
But the branding for a brewery will be more attractive on the Jeep to catch attention.
Then again I am a Pajero man......

[Shane]

What is the plan for the vehicle?

Is it going to stand out front with the branding, will it be used to drive around the area or will you be doing trails on a regular basis?

Is it a question of ability over visual appearance ?

How do you plan to make the branding on the vehicle work for you?

Just trying to understand how you plan on using it.


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[Renier_c]

What about a H3? Lots of body to work with. Nice and big so will be seen. Just saying, as Ive seen one used by a company in George. And you cant miss it!

[jakeslouw]

@ianvdl : as I said, a TDi would be a possible conversion but not critical. And yes, I'd consider a TD42Ti long before the others, although the QD32Ti is no slouch @ 110kW and 330Nm (close to a stock TD42T).

@Shane: just a weekend toy, also mobile marketing, towing the festival trailer, and to town once a week to keep the battery charged and the moving bits happy, and then a trail ride also for marketing (and also for fun, a man isn't a stone.........). So most probably a vinyl wrap with our branding.
KMs per year? let's say 5000 maximum. @ 20L/100 that is around R25,000 worth of petrol.........if it ever gets used more, then a diesel conversion would make financial sense but we'll get over that hurdle when we get to it.

@Renier_c: Hummers are too pricey. Ditto Toyota Cruisers of any type.

@Saxj: remind us of the issues you had? Drivetrain? Also understand I'm good friends with a Jeep indie.......

[Renier_c]

Looking at Autotrader. The TJ and H3 are goung for 120k - 160k

[jakeslouw]

I'm not spending that when I can buy a Patrol for R80k...........

[Saxj]

@Saxj: remind us of the issues you had? Drivetrain? Also understand I'm good friends with a Jeep indie.......

Auto-box - I had it repaired a couple of times, after it packed in for the 3rd time I scrapped the vehicle.
Electronics - I had lots of issues, there are very few people that know what they are doing with Jeep electronics, and some that take you for a ride. Jeep at one point came back and said we don't work on these any more. I fortunately found an Indie that new his stuff.
Fuel pump - Packed in while I was doing Berakah - made for an interesting day.
Brakes - Bad design - the brake pad wears a groove in the calliper causing very uneven wear.
Availability of spares was an issue. I even battled to find windscreen wipers without paying the dealers exorbitant prices.

The strange thing was that if we were on a long trip, it never gave the slightest issue. It was the best touring vehicle I ever owned, apart from the fuel consumption.

There was the occasion when it caught fire, because a hole rusted through the floorboard under the back seat causing the carpet to hang down on to the exhaust. I was able to put the fire out by cutting the burning carpet out with a pocket knife. I have since learnt my lesson and never go anywhere without a fire extinguisher and water in the car.

[jakeslouw]

"Brakes - Bad design - the brake pad wears a groove in the calliper causing very uneven wear."

I'd love to know how this could happen. Never heard of this in over 40 years of vehicle ownership and swinging my own spanners.
Are you saying that there was sufficient vibration during normal driving to actually wear a detent or groove on the caliper arm that stopped the pad from being depressed by the pistons? Was the pad properly installed? Was it a quality pad?

Sounds like the vehicle was properly thrashed before you bought it.

There are literally thousands (if not 100,000s) of XJs and TJs still running around the USA.

[jakeslouw]

And before you have a fit: I had a horrible lemon of a Jeep GC WJ 4.7 HO............caused by a bad previous owner and a USELESS indie in Pretoria North. I can't say all WJ Grand Cherokees are crap, can I?

[jakeslouw]

What about this?



https://www.webuycars.co.za/buy-a-car/F ... gJIw_D_BwE

[Mike Nel]

What about this?



https://www.webuycars.co.za/buy-a-car/F ... gJIw_D_BwE

Looks good from the outside, but seems a few things needs to be looked at