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Beach driving.
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:49 pm
by Prof
What are your thoughts on lifting the beach driving ban and allowing beach driving, albeit with 'permits'?
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:11 pm
by Mad Manny
I'm opposed to it.
Especially given the deterioration in behaviour of many Off Road Users.
Definately against it...
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:40 pm
by Martin de Jager
Agreed, holigans will cause havoc on the beaches
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:30 am
by Redman
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:41 am
by Mad Manny
Redman, they can't ban beach driving in Oz, the island only consists of a insect infested desert surrounded by a beach surrounded by the sea.where would you Covid Converts drive if they banned beach driving - the Simpson?
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:22 am
by jakeslouw
What would be the reason to lift the ban? As Martin said, since we are now a nation of law breakers, who will respect the environment?
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:46 am
by Redman
Just making the best out shitty situation Manny
Life sucks when they don't steal your Toyota at the mall, so we ,might as well use them and go drive them on the beach
But on a serious note... I can just imagine what South Africa will be like when the Holics head onto the beaches. Recovery companies will have a blast. If you think a Hilux loves driving into a dam, imagine how many will end up in the ocean?
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:01 pm
by Paul#25
Even with a permit system, there will be the rich idiots buying the right to go do as they please. We live in a society that believes rules don't apply to them most of the time. The group that had a heart attack about the Toyota advert with a vehicle driving in the dunes, will fight this vigorously and want all off road driving band.
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:21 pm
by Disco Nic
Mad Manny wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:11 pm
I'm opposed to it.
Especially given the deterioration in behaviour of many Off Road Users.
Definately against it...
Ruling in Namibia is a little different, but I’d very much like for them to enforce the permit system here, on the beaches and in the dunes.
Too often we have the limited few causing severe damage and just general chaos here, and everyone else having to pay the price for it.
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:44 pm
by iandvl
There are idiots everywhere. I remember seeing several lichen fields somewhere on the skeleton coast with tyre tracks over the lichens - this despite most of the areas being barred off with steel cables.
I'm not sure specifically what the Namibian regulations are. I believe some of the dune area between Swakop and Walvis is ear-marked for "playing". As are the beach routes to the various "visgate" between Swakop and Ugab. And there are other routes (ie: Luderitz to Walvis etc, which are concession only), but I'm really not entirely sure how this all works.
From a ZA perspective, one could look at specific locations allowing specific numbers of vehicles on the beach per day (Sodwana comes to mind). A permit approach could also actually work - as is required in the Eastern Cape and on several routes - the Richtersveld Community Conservancy, and the Namakwa eco route come to mind. But who and what is going to enforce this ? Although possessing permits when I've been in these areas, I've never actually been asked for my permit. And it does not seem to work. For example, I did parts of the Namaqua eco-route a few years ago. Apparently the Kamgab river camping is restricted to eight vehicles per day. There were five vehicles in our group - with the relevant bookings and permits. However, the Kamgab river was choc-a-bloc that specific day.
Additionally, whoever does the enforcing is going to have to have real teeth as I can also predict instances where booze-fuelled drivers of Toyotaholic vehicles pumping Kurt Darren are going to get very confrontational.
Unfortunately, in this case, we are our own worst enemies. I use the term "we" and "own" loosely - as I will ensure my paperwork is up to date when visiting areas where paperwork is required and I stick to that sort of "overlander's code"-thing. But the bad behaviour of other 4x4 drivers is probably going to result in various areas becoming no-go unless under the auspices of a tour operator. Something I believe very strongly against.
Unless there is will power to enforce a permit system and make sure it gets adhered to, we can just stick to the complete ban.
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:38 pm
by jakeslouw
I have no problem if most areas are closed to all types of off-road driving, including quads. But then at least provide areas such as old mines and salt flats for recreational driving? The Mericans have "Off Highway Vehicle" parks. The system works well.
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:41 pm
by iandvl
The 'merkins (there is a joke about that - read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin) actually police the stuff. Like Oz, it is actually a police state. Unlike hsitholes like ZA.
As I said, the system can work. But it needs political willpower.
Edit: The merkin thing comes from Dialogue with said 'merkins.
Merkin: "Hi - I'm a merkin."
Me: "Well good on you."
They all sound like that...
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:42 pm
by Disco Nic
iandvl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:44 pm
There are idiots everywhere. I remember seeing several lichen fields somewhere on the skeleton coast with tyre tracks over the lichens - this despite most of the areas being barred off with steel cables.
I'm not sure specifically what the Namibian regulations are. I believe some of the dune area between Swakop and Walvis is ear-marked for "playing". As are the beach routes to the various "visgate" between Swakop and Ugab. And there are other routes (ie: Luderitz to Walvis etc, which are concession only), but I'm really not entirely sure how this all works.
From a ZA perspective, one could look at specific locations allowing specific numbers of vehicles on the beach per day (Sodwana comes to mind). A permit approach could also actually work - as is required in the Eastern Cape and on several routes - the Richtersveld Community Conservancy, and the Namakwa eco route come to mind. But who and what is going to enforce this ? Although possessing permits when I've been in these areas, I've never actually been asked for my permit. And it does not seem to work. For example, I did parts of the Namaqua eco-route a few years ago. Apparently the Kamgab river camping is restricted to eight vehicles per day. There were five vehicles in our group - with the relevant bookings and permits. However, the Kamgab river was choc-a-bloc that specific day.
Additionally, whoever does the enforcing is going to have to have real teeth as I can also predict instances where booze-fuelled drivers of Toyotaholic vehicles pumping Kurt Darren are going to get very confrontational.
Unfortunately, in this case, we are our own worst enemies. I use the term "we" and "own" loosely - as I will ensure my paperwork is up to date when visiting areas where paperwork is required and I stick to that sort of "overlander's code"-thing. But the bad behaviour of other 4x4 drivers is probably going to result in various areas becoming no-go unless under the auspices of a tour operator. Something I believe very strongly against.
Unless there is will power to enforce a permit system and make sure it gets adhered to, we can just stick to the complete ban.
So… in Namibia we have access to all of these and as it is part of the Dorob Conservation area, we do actually need a permit (that’s free)… nobody gets one though because nobody enforces it.
Same with the fishing license, it’s required but nobody enforces it.
That being said, the MET does have a fleet of Cessna’s that they use to “patrol” various areas, but again I’ve never seen or heard of anyone being stopped/fined/banned.
And I didn’t wanna say it, but you put it so eloquently:
iandvl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:44 pm
booze-fuelled drivers of Toyotaholic vehicles pumping Kurt Darren
from GP or the EC
I find these are usually the ones that f**k it up for everyone, and the locals get to deal with the clean up/repercussions..
I think we should charge every Saffer N$250/ permit, and if he has a Hol-licker Sticker on his car, a N$500 nuisance fee on top.
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:35 am
by jakeslouw
I see on the No4x4FightClub that the issue of mandatory 4x4 courses and certification has come up in regard to beach access regulation.
@mad manny: care to rehash the previous issues?
Re: Beach driving.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:32 am
by Ricof4e
@Disco Nic, the Saffers will pay that with a smile, so too will I.
Sadly, I think there is no middle ground on this one as it is impossible to regulate: either a full ban or let "God's water oor God's akker".
After my 7 year old son was nearly run over at Paaltjies by a raving mad fisherman chasing cob, I have given up the good fight.