OGATO are they reviving the NOW & NORS

[Ricof4e]

"It is an umbrella organisation to look after the interests of essentially Professional 4x4 Guides and 4x4 track owners".

That's a bit vague?

[jakeslouw]

Agreed and actually a conflict of interest.

Let the Guides police themselves. Let the trails do the same. An umbrella doesn't work for all types of weather.

[AndreasR]

It seems that many professions set up organisations in an attempt to put up a barrier to entry of some form for better or worse. Look at the Estate Agents Board (or whatever it’s called now) and Manny mentioned the builders organisations. Lawyers have to be admitted I believe and do articles, same as accountants. Engineers have to belong to some society or other. Health professionals have to be registered. Investment advisers and Insurance Brokers, same thing. The list is endless.

How many South Africans have used an unregistered plumber or electrician to “ save” a few bucks.

Ogato seems to support the regulation of the guiding industry (not a bad idea in my view) but probably want it done in a way that benefits the existing “registered” guides. Not much different to many industries.

There does seem to be a large number of new overlanding tour guides coming on to the market offering their services. There is currently no “enforced” law or rule against it. That lends itself to some unscrupulous or “unqualified” operators taking the public’s money and providing a very poor product or none at all. This bakkie brigade should in my view be prevented from operating. How else than through enforced regulation? Alas we live in South Africa which means that enforcement will never happen (after all, murder is also illegal) which is to the detriment of the consumer and the good honest hard working guides that provide a superior product.

A sad state of affairs but until the industry has some sort of meaningful oversight, I advise spending your money wisely if you intend to use these services.

[Prof]

Agreed and actually a conflict of interest.

Let the Guides police themselves. Let the trails do the same. An umbrella doesn't work for all types of weather.

There was an organisation called SAROOF for that in the distant past

[Prof]

Some more info around OGATO, albeit a bit dated...for interest then

[Prof]

I have examples of the courses they gave and really aimed at the guiding community.

[Shane]

"It is an umbrella organisation to look after the interests of essentially Professional 4x4 Guides and 4x4 track owners".

That's a bit vague?

Would these tracks be like Hennops, Dewildt, etc.

Why would there be a need for OGATO to look after their interests?

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[Mad Manny]

Shane, what I was going to do in post #2where I wrote 'More later...' was explain the whole history.
But the Thread ran away from me.

Basically the NOW (National Offroad Workgroup) was proposing was NORS - which would encompass:
The Tour guides, the trail owners & the Off-Road Users (You & I) being regulated.
The 4x4 User would need a 4x4 Drivers license that would be renewed every few years.

So the whole thing would be self regulated.

Basically it would be the end of Toyotaholics - which is a good thing.

But all these regulatory bodies & licenses etc would cost a bucket load of money, that we, the ones using trails, going on guided tours etc, would have to pay for.
Also, as training would be compulsory, trainers would coin it - they already overcharge.

In fact, it was the Tour Guides and Trainers pushing it - obviously.

So while the NORS was a good idea in principle, it's implementation was questionable & we fought it.

It was abandoned, but since 2012 I have been waiting for it (regulation) to rare it's head again...

[Shane]

Well personally I think they would kill the industry.

I can understand (to some extent) why they might want to redulate tour operators - to prevent guys like the wood fetcher from shafting people.

However, one must ask how many such operators there are out there....

As for trails and trail owners/drivers - they(OGATO) are somewhat arrogant to take it upon themselves to want to regulate the rest of us !

I understand there are a few individuals who cannot behave themselves - there is always THAT group. However I for one cannot see the need at this point.

Especially if they expect you to renew your "4x4 licence" every few years!

I get the impression that this is just another money making scheme aimed at enriching a select few!

People like these who would regulate you taking a shit - given half a chance!


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[jakeslouw]

People like this would put a tax on breathing............

[Jadranko]

Especially if they expect you to renew your "4x4 licence" every few years!

I get the impression that this is just another money making scheme aimed at enriching a select few!


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like TV license,once inside the system,stuck in it forever or
added as CO2 tax when buying a bakkie.

[jakeslouw]

like TV license,once inside the system,stuck in it forever

According to those fools at the SABC, I have 4 licenses, owe them over R10k in arrears, yet I haven't had a TV on my name since I went and worked overseas in 2004............

[iandvl]

I think between this thread and another one on patrol4x4, a nerve was struck somewhere. Bernie made some additional posts on the matter.

[Shane]

All good and well - but the exposure was limited to those on his platform.

Surely seeing that the 4x4 AG is actually listed on their site he should have posted that here as well?

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[Mad Manny]

This Thread has definitely had an impact judging by the amount of contact made with me over the last few days.

This (undated) press release by Bernie is most welcome.

He says that OGATO made an announcement on Social Media, yes, he did, but only on Bernie's personal FB page (Which I, for one, notice I am no longer a member of).
Why not approach the Major Clubs to inform their members? (LROC, Jeep Club, AAWDCSA, 4x4AG etc)
Why not post it on the Major 4x4 Forums? (4x4Community Forum, 4x4AG, Hilux Forum, Land Cruiser Forum etc).
MV Coller is on both the Patrol4x4 & 4x4Community Forums.
None of them belong to this Forum, the ONLY Forum dedicated purely to the Off Road User?
It is only on the Forums thanks to me, Ian & Hunter.
Thanks to our efforts MV Coller had the opportunity to respond to one of the 3 Threads (on Patrol4x4) &, in the interests of transparency, I quoted that post here.
Why not also put it on the decent 4x4 Facebook pages (not Holics, but Adventure Africa & the like)?
So instead of the Vice Chair's Personal FB page, approach 4x4 Clubs, 4x4 Forums, 4x4 FB pages.
I'd have asked Adventure Africa Mag & others like it to publish the press release.

I really would like to know more ABOUT OGATO, I'd love to see their; CODE of CONDUCT, MISSION STATEMENT & WHO they are.
So they need to urgently need to set up a Website in my opinion.

There are a lot of questions, Bernie explains the WHY in the press release;
I believe their are a few 'Wood Feature' types in the 4x4 Overland Tour Industry & I applaud Bernie's efforts to root them out.
however, other questions remain, I'd have thought that they should have first;
1. Approached the Major Tour Operators.
2. Met to discuss the Why & How.
3. Then started the consultation process (which they are now doing) but ensured a wider spread/reach.

The Major, recognized, registered Tour Operators are few & known, so it's easy to reach out to them directly.

So, in summary, we are NOT opposed to a body like OGATO, as I stated earlier in this Thread, if done properly it could be a good thing.

But it needs to be done properly - and FB posts (alone) is not the way to go.