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Radios For Convoy Use On Club Outings.

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Paul#25
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Radios For Convoy Use On Club Outings.

#1

Post by Paul#25 »

On the recent Mountain Passes Tour we landed up with different types of radios being used in the group. This caused some problems as the guys with certain makes of licence free radios could communicate with each other but not with other licence free radios. 2 of us had radios fitted to our vehicles using the ORRA frequencies and there were 2 handheld radios on the same ORRA frequencies.
In the mountains line of sight is limited and this proved to be a problem for all the handheld radios on both VHF and UHF as no one had external aerials for them. The VHF ORRA radios fitted to the vehicles could communicate from front to back of the 9 vehicle convoy due to external aerials, higher power output and better range on VHF.
As a club it will be impossible to force anyone to get a certain radio, be it fixed in the vehicle or handheld, VHF on ORRA frequencies or a certain make of licence free radio. My aim with this post is to open a discussion of a way forward that will work best for members that are most likely to be participating in club functions where radio contact will be an advantage. I am in no way an expert in the field but did a lot of research for my own installation and use. There are some very clued up guys around that will hopefully add incite on this thread.

Here is my personal opinion on the pro's and con's of licence free verses VHF on the ORRA frequencies.
I have two handheld radios that work on both the VHF ORRA frequencies and the preferred licence free UHF frequencies and a fixed radio on the VHF ORRA frequencies installed in my Disco. The handheld radios have limited range from inside a vehicle with VHF being a lot better than UHF and both are boosted by use of an external aerial. This is due to a much lower power output than the fixed installation mobile radio fitted to a vehicle.
The mobile radio that I installed in the Disco is a RTS DV-2135 that cost under R1500.00 and is very small so does not take up a lot of space in the vehicle. The best part for me is that it is legal for me to use if and when I visit Namibia or Botswana with the ORRA licence and some additional paperwork.
My feeling is that the club should try to stick to use of the ORRA VHF frequencies as then everyone is able to talk to each other on known channel. For the guys that don't want to do a fixed installation of a radio into their vehicle, they could use a VHF handheld radio with an external magnetic aerial and still get better communication than the licence free radios. There are very few of the different makes of licence free handheld radios that are able to connect with a different make and then only on very limited channels.
There are lots of handheld radios that are available on-line and at flea markets that aren't ICASA approved but beware of buying them. They can interfere with other legal radio users and cause you lots of problems.
Lets hear everyone else's opinion.
Thanks.
Paul.
Last edited by Paul#25 on Wed May 09, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Nel
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#2

Post by Mike Nel »

Paul

Very good thread. I am a firm believer in radio communication when on a over landing trip or just a day excursion. More so when in the dunes for obvious reasons.

I run both a 29Mhz as well as a VHF in my vehicles. I also carry two handhelds for someone who doesn’t have
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#3

Post by Mike Nel »

Sorry. My fingers got in the way of me finishing the post.

When people use my radios they always say afterwards that they would go out and buy their own. It’s not that expensive as you rightly said.

It adds an element of safety to any group or convoy.

A stumbling block is obviously what type of radio to get. You venture off road with so many people with different types of radios and with different frequencies that it would be impossible to accommodate everybody.

This might make it a viable option to belong to a club such as the Action Group. If they had a dedicated channel on VHF like the Cruiser Club, they could buy bulk radios and offer it to their members. Just a thought
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#4

Post by Mad Manny »

We are formulating Club Policy on this & Andreas has been tasked with coming up with a solution.

The CORRECT answer is for everyone to have a vehicle mounted VHF Radio on ORRA with a valid license.

However, as this is not always practical or affordable Andreas will propose asolution.

What we must ensure is that all radios are on the same frequency...
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#5

Post by Martin de Jager »

As leader of the convoy I must stress the need of a good radio, setting the pace , focussing on the route and having contact with the back is not easy. The radios we had made it much more controllable.

When doing the passes, cellphone coverage and poor signal, nevermind cost and loosing concentration, is definitely not easy.
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#6

Post by Michael »

With so many options, it does make things difficult.

After my 1st big 4x4 outing (Gariep GTG), we were lent a radio and it was definitely an advantage, so did some research and the consensus at the time was that the Bosvark Vlakvark licence free was everyones choice, so off I went (along with a whole lot of friends) and bought one with an external magnetic aerial. It has worked well for us on our outings so far.

Now I have a conundrum, it may not be a lot of money, but the R1,500 odd I spent is not pocket change either; but it would obviously be better to be able to communicate with the AG on outings. Do I now toss the radio (I'm guessing it has very little in the way of 2nd hand value) and buy a new one (along with most of our local group who use them) and change to the VHF or just live with my choice. At the moment I'm leaning towards the 2nd option as I don't really want to spend the money again on equipment I already have.
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#7

Post by Paul#25 »

Mad Manny wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 7:30 pm
We are formulating Club Policy on this & Andreas has been tasked with coming up with a solution.

The CORRECT answer is for everyone to have a vehicle mounted VHF Radio on ORRA with a valid license.

However, as this is not always practical or affordable Andreas will propose asolution.

What we must ensure is that all radios are on the same frequency...
Does anyone know what is involved in getting our own 4X4AG frequency like some other clubs have?

Hopefully points raised on this thread will assist in formulating the club policy.
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#8

Post by Saxj »

@AxEgo - Radios seem to keep there value quite well.

My suggestion would be that the club purchase a number of VHF handhelds with Mag-mount aerials. These could then be borrowed by the members of the convoy that don't have their own radios.

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#9

Post by Michael »

Saxj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 am
My suggestion would be that the club purchase a number of VHF handhelds with Mag-mount aerials. These could then be borrowed by the members of the convoy that don't have their own radios.
That's not a bad idea... in my case that means that 1 of our group could use a club radio and relay any messages to the vlakvark group
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#10

Post by XJ Junkie »

Paul#25 wrote:
Mad Manny wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 7:30 pm
We are formulating Club Policy on this & Andreas has been tasked with coming up with a solution.

The CORRECT answer is for everyone to have a vehicle mounted VHF Radio on ORRA with a valid license.

However, as this is not always practical or affordable Andreas will propose asolution.

What we must ensure is that all radios are on the same frequency...
Does anyone know what is involved in getting our own 4X4AG frequency like some other clubs have?

Hopefully points raised on this thread will assist in formulating the club policy.
Just apply directly to ICCASA.
Disclaimer: Uninformed, no research, just very strong opinions

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#11

Post by Paul#25 »

AxEgo wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:34 am
Saxj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 am
My suggestion would be that the club purchase a number of VHF handhelds with Mag-mount aerials. These could then be borrowed by the members of the convoy that don't have their own radios.
That's not a bad idea... in my case that means that 1 of our group could use a club radio and relay any messages to the vlakvark group
On the Mountain Passes trip Martin had one of my handheld radios on ORRA 1 and one of the licence free radios in the lead vehicle. We can check with him but I think it will get seriously tricky trying to drive and monitor 2 radios on the passes. When Peter had his tyre problem and stopped he was close to the back of the convoy and the message that he had stopped never reached the front 4 vehicles. Due to the terrain and distance involved the VHF hand held radios were not up to the required task. 9 vehicles get quite strung out on the winding sand roads in the area, possibly due to dust. In the same area I was listening to two locals that were about 15km from me discussing pulling a bakkie out of mud that it had got stuck in. This was happening on ORRA channel 1 that I was monitoring.
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#12

Post by XJ Junkie »

AxEgo wrote: Do I now toss the radio (I'm guessing it has very little in the way of 2nd hand value) and buy a new one (along with most of our local group who use them) and change to the VHF or just live with my choice. At the moment I'm leaning towards the 2nd option as I don't really want to spend the money again on equipment I already have.
Difficult choice.
Just have both. Because then you’ve got 2 solutions.
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#13

Post by ThysleRoux »

Paul#25 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
AxEgo wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:34 am
Saxj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 am
My suggestion would be that the club purchase a number of VHF handhelds with Mag-mount aerials. These could then be borrowed by the members of the convoy that don't have their own radios.
That's not a bad idea... in my case that means that 1 of our group could use a club radio and relay any messages to the vlakvark group
On the Mountain Passes trip Martin had one of my handheld radios on ORRA 1 and one of the licence free radios in the lead vehicle. We can check with him but I think it will get seriously tricky trying to drive and monitor 2 radios on the passes. When Peter had his tyre problem and stopped he was close to the back of the convoy and the message that he had stopped never reached the front 4 vehicles. Due to the terrain and distance involved the VHF hand held radios were not up to the required task. 9 vehicles get quite strung out on the winding sand roads in the area, possibly due to dust. In the same area I was listening to two locals that were about 15km from me discussing pulling a bakkie out of mud that it had got stuck in. This was happening on ORRA channel 1 that I was monitoring.
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#14

Post by Paul#25 »

ThysleRoux wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:00 am
Paul#25 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
AxEgo wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:34 am

That's not a bad idea... in my case that means that 1 of our group could use a club radio and relay any messages to the vlakvark group
On the Mountain Passes trip Martin had one of my handheld radios on ORRA 1 and one of the licence free radios in the lead vehicle. We can check with him but I think it will get seriously tricky trying to drive and monitor 2 radios on the passes. When Peter had his tyre problem and stopped he was close to the back of the convoy and the message that he had stopped never reached the front 4 vehicles. Due to the terrain and distance involved the VHF hand held radios were not up to the required task. 9 vehicles get quite strung out on the winding sand roads in the area, possibly due to dust. In the same area I was listening to two locals that were about 15km from me discussing pulling a bakkie out of mud that it had got stuck in. This was happening on ORRA channel 1 that I was monitoring.
Convoy Driving 101 - Keep the vehicle behind you in sight ............................
Not that easy on the winding mountain roads with the dust. If a vehicle is 100m behind you he can be 3 bends away and in your dust. You need your navigator / passenger to monitor the vehicle behind as the driver needs to concentrate on staying on the road.
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#15

Post by KurtG »

ThysleRoux wrote:
Paul#25 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:49 am
AxEgo wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:34 am

That's not a bad idea... in my case that means that 1 of our group could use a club radio and relay any messages to the vlakvark group
On the Mountain Passes trip Martin had one of my handheld radios on ORRA 1 and one of the licence free radios in the lead vehicle. We can check with him but I think it will get seriously tricky trying to drive and monitor 2 radios on the passes. When Peter had his tyre problem and stopped he was close to the back of the convoy and the message that he had stopped never reached the front 4 vehicles. Due to the terrain and distance involved the VHF hand held radios were not up to the required task. 9 vehicles get quite strung out on the winding sand roads in the area, possibly due to dust. In the same area I was listening to two locals that were about 15km from me discussing pulling a bakkie out of mud that it had got stuck in. This was happening on ORRA channel 1 that I was monitoring.
Convoy Driving 101 - Keep the vehicle behind you in sight ............................
Sounds simple but never works because people don’t use their rear view mirrors. I’ve experienced this often even on short trails in and around Gauteng.
Flex is overrated

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