Manual vs Auto off-road

[Saxj]

When is a manual gearbox better than an automatic transmission off-road?

[XJ Junkie]

Manual offers more control options, especially for obstacles.

An advantage of auto is the constant drive to the wheels.

I prefer auto in-spite of the disadvantages.

[Chris Stoffel]

But if one could lock the auto in every gear then it can't be beaten.

[Mike Nel]

I hate the auto in sand, both the 200 and FJ.

I loved the Ranger manual. I felt more in control

That said, if I have to choose, then I’ll take the auto. If just for the convenience factor

[Hedgehog]

In rocky conditions the auto tends to stall and surge due to slippage of the torque converter. But using left foot braking when crawling over rocks helps iow, keeping your Torque converter revs up and then controlling speed by using the brakes.

But, anybody that has used a truly torquey low revving diesel engine with a nice low gear will tell you that in slow technical work, nothing beats a manual.

In high speed sand and muddy conditions, I would pick an auto every day.

[ThysleRoux]

Auto and STALL does not compute!!! A steady right foot is all that is required.

IMHO auto boxes work better in all off-road conditions, bar slow technical hill descents and up long dunes where high speed is required for the sake of momentum - a gearchange halfway up a dune under full power can result in the vehicle digging in (IF you have enough power to dig in at speed)

Rock crawling with an automatic is all dependent of the torque available from the engine. The torque multiplying factor of an auto box allows for much lower speeds without the risk of stalling.

[Wooky]

For most people the auto / manual question is only answered by personal preference when it comes to offroad driving.
They will both do what the other can with slight modifications to driving style/technique.

To answer the original question... In what respects is a manual better?

1/ The ability to "rock" the vehicle forward and backwards is easier with a manual
2/ A failed hill climb recovery is easier with a manual (less "pucker" factor too)
3/ Manuals give a more "connected" driving experience
4/ Manuals run at cooler temperatures than auto boxes - therefore less radiators and associated plumbing as well
5/ Manuals are cheaper to repair when things go wrong
6/ You will be more likely to be able to repair a manual box in a 3rd world country than an auto
7/ Can't Tow / push start an Auto

Sure there is more....

[Hedgehog]

Auto and STALL does not compute!!! A steady right foot is all that is required.

IMHO auto boxes work better in all off-road conditions, bar slow technical hill descents and up long dunes where high speed is required for the sake of momentum - a gearchange halfway up a dune under full power can result in the vehicle digging in (IF you have enough power to dig in at speed)

Rock crawling with an automatic is all dependent of the torque available from the engine. The torque multiplying factor of an auto box allows for much lower speeds without the risk of stalling.

I did not imply that the engine stalls..

If you have crawled rocks with an auto box before you will know what I mean..
It moves to a rock, tyre goes against rock, movement of car stops or slows as it has to climb the rock, driver then sometimes needs to give gas for torque converter to turn drive train, car moves, gets up and over rock and surges down the other side, where driver then backs off, but then hits next rock a bit too fast... etc..

[ThysleRoux]

Andrew that happens due to a lack of throttle control - and in some cases torque/power. In your scenario there is a good chance of stalling the engine thereby adding to the problem.

With an auto you have the benefit of not having to worry about stalling the engine, allowing more time to concentrate on getting the rest right. With enough low down oomph and proper low range ratios, an automatic vehicle will crawl over any rock that is small enough to clear, at idle with very little throttle input.

[XJ Junkie]

Thys is correct. It’s all about throttle input & timing. Having a proper low range ratio also helps.

Engine wise, I’ve never stalled at auto & I don’t think it’s possible.

[Wave]

I personally think a manual is better off road, but the problem comes in when many vehicles are used as everyday cars, then an auto is a nice option as traffic sucks, also towing with a modern auto box is a dream... my next car will probably be an auto even though it may not be the best off road

[XJ Junkie]

Agreed Wave. I still enjoy an auto.

[Wooky]

Ronny Dahl sums it up the pros and cons of each quite well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_NMaIL5IQ

[ThysleRoux]

For most people the auto / manual question is only answered by personal preference when it comes to offroad driving.
They will both do what the other can with slight modifications to driving style/technique.

To answer the original question... In what respects is a manual better?

1/ The ability to "rock" the vehicle forward and backwards is easier with a manual
2/ A failed hill climb recovery is easier with a manual (less "pucker" factor too)
3/ Manuals give a more "connected" driving experience
4/ Manuals run at cooler temperatures than auto boxes - therefore less radiators and associated plumbing as well
5/ Manuals are cheaper to repair when things go wrong
6/ You will be more likely to be able to repair a manual box in a 3rd world country than an auto
7/ Can't Tow / push start an Auto

Sure there is more....

I agree with most of the above apart from 2 and 5.
2/ unclear if you mean recovery like in stuck or retrying the obstacle under your own power.

• ii/ I dont see any difference in recoverng a stuck manual or automatice vehicle.

• iii/ Retrying is less stressful, as you do not have to worry about stalling the engine and thereby losing brake boost, but the lack of engine braking can be an issue./

5/ When was the last time you replaced a dual mass flywheel clutch assembly - the cost is horrendous while I cannot recall a case where a decently maintained autobox required serious repairs. I recently replaced all the electronic sensors, fluid and filters on RooiTjiep's transmission (400+ k km) for under R2000.

[Hedgehog]

Thys is correct. It’s all about throttle input & timing. Having a proper low range ratio also helps.

Engine wise, I’ve never stalled at auto & I don’t think it’s possible.

Fok guys, I never said the engine would stall,

Eish - some guys always have to argue theory.. I have practical own experiences, and it has nothing to do with throttle control.
Most auto boxes have a higher ratio than the manual counterpart, but the torque multiplying effect of the auto counters that... but, you still need to counter the against and over effect that rock crawling causes... and yes the Patrol I had had more than enough power not to stall. I was talking about stalling as per forward movement...not the damn engine

I know some Jeeps, like the Rubi has excellent low ratios, but this discussion is not about only vehicles with very low ratios...f you stall an auto over rocks you are an idiot.