Wooky wrote:
So being a scientist at heart the question was more of academic interest as to what could be done / changed to assist in that situation.
My personal preference is for a vehicle without all the electronic aids.
I can see why the vehicle manufacturers fit them and for the vast majority of drivers out there the traction aids are all they want / need.
So really have nothing against them but just prefer to not have them in my own vehicles.
If you’ve got 3 wheels on the ground due to good articulation, with enough grip, then you don’t need electronic traction control or a locker.
But the reality is that very few new vehicles can cope without TC.
Old school is dead.
Disclaimer: Uninformed, no research, just very strong opinions
Wooky wrote: the D90 performed flawlessly and the TC seemed to do what was needed.
On this particular hill the traction control system seemed to really tie itself in knots on what would seem to be a fairly simple obstacle.
It had a bit of a cross axel as you began the second part of the climb and the left front tyre was left hanging for a brief period.
At this point the TC appeared to cut in and out randomly leaving the D90 scrabbling for traction but going no further.
The most common mistake is confusing DSC with TC.
If DSC is left on then it’ll get busier than a TDv6 warranty claims Clerk.
Disclaimer: Uninformed, no research, just very strong opinions
What does DSC do?
Google says it has to do with dynamic control of the suspension but would something like the D90 Puma have it?
Watching a few of the youtube demo videos showing how the TC works on the Defender Pumas it would appear that:
1/ The TC needs time to kick in. About 2-3 seconds by the looks of it
2/ The TC works better if there is a "smooth" transition ( with a constant throttle?) from traction to limited traction situations. I suppose this has to with the time taken to measure the rotational differences at the wheels.
In the situation we had the D90 started the customary "hop" as it lost traction on the climb. Throttle was not excessive so hop was minor but there.
Based on the above this would limit the time interval that the TC had in order to measure wheel rotation differences and by the time it started to intervene it was out of sync with what the wheels actually needed in TC terms. Or if the traction / no traction events at each wheel happened to rapidly then the TC would not kick in at all?
For the most part the TC seemed to work just fine...I suppose this was just one of those situations and no manufacturer can make a system that will cope with all eventualities.
DSC is basically a road function that attempts to straighten a vehicle up & stabilize it when it senses the car is not happy (wheel spin). The software looks for slip on any wheel & applies braking to that, or how ever many wheels are slipping. In most cases it also cuts engine power.
None of the above is desirable offroad for obvious reasons.
TC on the other hand works on individual axles. So when it detects excessive wheelspin on an axle, it brakes the wheel that’s spinning which then sends all the torque to the opposite wheel that supposedly has the most traction.
It shouldn’t take 2 to 3 seconds as you described. Especially on modern vehicles. Although it’s common for it to take long to kick in on LSD & autolocker systems.
We should bear in mind that unlike a manual locker, these are all ‘reactive’ aids & will only engage when the throtttle pedal is in use. Another common mistake is too tap off just as the TC is trying to do its thing.
Disclaimer: Uninformed, no research, just very strong opinions
ok... so DSC has control of almost all the systems.
Kinda fits into the category of " one ring to rule them all". I can see where that could be a problem off road.
I didn't measure the time precisely on the youtube clips but it was a definite delay before the TC moved the vehicle forward again.
DSC/ESP/ESC and a million other acronyms is usually turned off when low range is engaged, and replaced with Brake Traction Control (Which also has a million acronyms)
If you ever think TC can out perform good old lockers in sand or dune driving Sit back and think what you think is serious sand or dune driving might be just not so serious if TC can cope with it
grips wrote:If you ever think TC can out perform good old lockers in sand or dune driving Sit back and think what you think is serious sand or dune driving might be just not so serious if TC can cope with it
How about a 5.7 Hemi WK without lockers vs a 300 Tdi with lockers?
Disclaimer: Uninformed, no research, just very strong opinions
grips wrote:If you ever think TC can out perform good old lockers in sand or dune driving Sit back and think what you think is serious sand or dune driving might be just not so serious if TC can cope with it
So does that give me a bit of street cred in dune driving with traction control?
grips wrote:If you ever think TC can out perform good old lockers in sand or dune driving Sit back and think what you think is serious sand or dune driving might be just not so serious if TC can cope with it
How about a 5.7 Hemi WK without lockers vs a 300 Tdi with lockers?
Now you are talking. Cubic inches, Horse Power vs incompetence of making full use of lockers.
grips wrote:If you ever think TC can out perform good old lockers in sand or dune driving Sit back and think what you think is serious sand or dune driving might be just not so serious if TC can cope with it
So does that give me a bit of street cred in dune driving with traction control?
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Says the guy who pulled fuses and disconnected sensors and ended up with a gazzilion fault codes.
But Yes Derick you stand your man in he dunes with the v6 Amarok. Do not think guys with lesser 4x4`s can say the same. Then also Andre with his 100 series stock 4.5EFI with 35`s put up quite a show.
