Off Course 4x4

[Mad Manny]

Shane, unless lockers are free I think it's very unfair to criticise a guy for not having any mod.
Next we are going to demand guys have a winch.
Then that they have a front locker.
Then they must convert to SFA.
Then we'll be insisting on Portal axles & parabolic springs.

You wheel with what you have.
You fit the mods you can afford.,

[Chris Stoffel]

Regarding wheelspin that damages trails/obstacles, one can perhaps regard that as improving the obstacle? Ja?

[Chris Stoffel]

I get it - the less mods the more skill required.

Being a stingy bugger - I'd rather be slightly over modded and have no vehicle damage - than more standard and pick up dings and stuff.

I guess the more I 4x4, the more I'll come to accept that damage is a given sooner or later.

I have nothing but respect for those who drive fairly standard vehicles.

More mods can certainly make up for less skill.

I rely on my mods. Makes me feel comfortable.



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How on earth are you going to damage this?

[Shane]

Shane, unless lockers are free I think it's very unfair to criticise a guy for not having any mod.
Next we are going to demand guys have a winch.
Then that they have a front locker.
Then they must convert to SFA.
Then we'll be insisting on Portal axles & parabolic springs.

You wheel with what you have.
You fit the mods you can afford.,

Manny you might want to re-read my original post.

I specifically said that it was not my intention to criticize - merely to understand.

The answer was later given when it was said that the locker had broken numerous times and Anthony had given up repairing it.

The reasoning makes perfect sense.

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[BushWacker]

... I seem to think that cost might also come into it !
For a (only) center-diff older TD5 Defender a rear locker
will come in at about +R25k and same again (?) for front.

Also ... doesnt a Patrol come with TC or not ... ?
because the better of double DL or TC is
not huge though some cars have it all ...
The difference in capability between an old center diff Defender and a Puma w TC and double DLs fitted
is vast ... vast.

I do know that a Center Diff (only) is a huge disadvantage
for me relative to other folk in 44AG but it does
(diplomatically) leave more to MY singular ability & skill !

[Apocalypse]

A double live axle vehicle has something called articulation - the wheels stay on the ground.

You only need to lock up if a wheel is off the ground, so the one thats on the ground gets some torque.

The only time I put the lockers on in the Rubicon is to show boat - Climb a tyre or drag a 2 ton trailer up where a lesser vehicle cannot go with or without diff lock...

[BushWacker]

A double live axle vehicle has something called articulation - the wheels stay on the ground.

You only need to lock up if a wheel is off the ground, so the one thats on the ground gets some torque.

The only time I put the lockers on in the Rubicon is to show boat - Climb a tyre or drag a 2 ton trailer up where a lesser vehicle cannot go with or without diff lock...

... but your TC is normally operative by default ?

[BushWacker]

A double live axle vehicle has something called articulation - the wheels stay on the ground.

You only need to lock up if a wheel is off the ground, so the one thats on the ground gets some torque.

The only time I put the lockers on in the Rubicon is to show boat - Climb a tyre or drag a 2 ton trailer up where a lesser vehicle cannot go with or without diff lock...

... but your TC is normally applied ?

[Apocalypse]

A double live axle vehicle has something called articulation - the wheels stay on the ground.

You only need to lock up if a wheel is off the ground, so the one thats on the ground gets some torque.

The only time I put the lockers on in the Rubicon is to show boat - Climb a tyre or drag a 2 ton trailer up where a lesser vehicle cannot go with or without diff lock...

... but your TC is normally operative by default ?

you mean my feet?

In Low Range or High range Full off mode, the Wrangler dumps the traction control, ABS, ESP etc - the only thing that remains active is the EBD - electronically braked diff - which is a traction aid - the system will apply a small amount of brake to the spinning wheel on either axle. It does help a little, but it's not a Limited slip or locker by any means, it has to spin before it will transfer torque.

[BushWacker]

... there we go ...

[Apocalypse]

... there we go ...

The Defender TD5 didn't have any of that - no lockers, no TC etc. Same thing. With articulation, the wheels stay on the ground, it can transfer torque.

It far outperforms the independent Front suspension setups which have very little articulation to speak of - even when modified .

The Puma has Traction control, but it makes little difference.

[Mad Manny]

In Low Range or High range Full off mode, the Wrangler dumps the traction control, ABS, ESP etc - the only thing that remains active is the EBD - electronically braked diff - which is a traction aid - the system will apply a small amount of brake to the spinning wheel on either axle. It does help a little, but it's not a Limited slip or locker by any means, it has to spin before it will transfer torque.

I thought EBD was Electronic Brake Force Distribution?

[Apocalypse]

something like that.

ADA

Another dumb acronym...

this is for you!

In Low Range or High range Full off mode, the Wrangler dumps the traction control, ABS, ESP etc - the only thing that remains active is the EBD - electronically braked diff - which is a traction aid - the system will apply a small amount of brake to the spinning wheel on either axle. It does help a little, but it's not a Limited slip or locker by any means, it has to spin before it will transfer torque.

I thought EBD was Electronic Brake Force Distribution?

[BushWacker]

On Wed I go to LR Experience for a full explanation, demo and test drive of 'The New Defender' to see what the driver actually does.
Wranglers etc probably give a similar experience...

For an old Defender guy its probably like being deported to some other folks heaven and finding its
too pricey and automated
with not enough to do...

[Anthony Forgey]

so here's the story...

The patrol comes out with a factory rear locker. Its pretty good...but...the engagement system is its weakness... it requires constant vacuum to stay disengaged and vacuum to engage. The vacuum lines become brittle and develop cracks thus leaking vacuum. the locker then partially engages ad the teeth get rounded. I killed my locker like that.

I would have fitted lockers ages ago, however they are expensive.

As Renier indicated, we will have a segment on an upcoming episode where we have a round the fire discussion/debate o whether Japie ad I should look at fitting lockers... He was a guest along with some other hummers on that shoot.

As some have already noted, reliance on lockers rather than skill is one of the reasons why we have been hesitant to fit these. For me, the pro's outweigh the con's.

I have acquired a set of front and rear lockers which are still in their packaging in my office. They've been there for a few months now. I will be fitting them when I get the time to do so.