Old vs New for the bush, what do you say?

[Trolly Fan]

This cannot be an age old debate, as years ago, there were no new vehicles, only old ones that were not old yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1LNFw-Xy_A

So the old Paj and old Prado did not do all that well in the Simpson desert. See link below *.
In fact, the brand new Prado did very well by comparison on that trip.
But I also think the two gentlemen in the old cars deliberately do not fix them up completely.
Doing bush mechanics is part of the show.

My view is, it takes a lot of work to make an old solid axle reliable and bush proof.
But once you get there, I would not replace it for anything new in the world.

So, what do you say, Old or New for the bush?

* If you have not seen it yet, this is probably one of the most entertaining episodes made by 4wd 24/7 to date:
https://youtu.be/_32oDuTWIPI?si=Py41mERhXFrIdOnI

[Bugjuic]

Wow can't believe the lack of answers on this thread.

Old for the bush for sure! It all heads to the fact of repairing something as a bushfix, and these days the vehicles are of such a nature that everything needs to be diagnosed electronically to run. The ford, for example, going into limp mode in the video is NOT acceptable as a bush vehicle. In my opinion a bush vehicle is a vehicle that should do what I tell it to do! If I see the sh*t hitting the fan and drive it into the red and all the gauges are on their limits, that should be my choice as it is a fight or flight instinct then, hence technology advanced engines will decide to shut themselves off and I might be in a world of trouble. I can fix the vehicle later, but it was in charge of it all the way.

As for reliability I think there is something to be said for newer vehicles, as I believe they might be more reliable for that exact reason of the vehicle looking after itself. The chances that a newer vehicle making a long journey are probably better, but then you will have to replace that vehicle on a regular basis to keep it 'reliable'. New vehicles now I am positive will be unreliable for the bush in 20 years time and will not stand the test of time such as the old SFA's. The reliability factor will decrease as the electronic components start to fail.

[grips]

With an older vehicle it all comes down on maintenance.
If properly maintained it should be as reliable as new.
However high km vehicles need crucial things to be replaced. For instance I won`t take a 300k km plus automatic vehicle into the bush with out a complete gearbox overhaul or a new box.
Things like clutches and valve banks wear to a point making them unreliable.

So yes if you stick to serious maintenance no problem. The other side of the coin is at what stage does you reach a point of uneconomical repairs.
I have read quite a few stories where older 4x4`s becomes a money pit. It is also a fact that certain vehicles can just take so much more hammering in off-road conditions than others.

I were on quite a few trips where vehicles were left behind or could not complete the trip. In one case we had to wait two weeks for spares and then almost travel 300km back to repair and recover a 4x4 left behind in the dunes.

New 4x4`s can also break down don`t think we can argue that. The most important thing is spares availability. I quickly realized that with the American V8 Ranger I had. When buying a 4x4 my first search will be dealer networks over Africa. Recoveries can quickly become very expensive if needed to be done from remote places. One interesting story I will never forget is the case of Jan Slabber many moons ago. His F150 left him stranded in Angola for almost three months. The red tape to source, import and get the spares delivered to his location were unbelievable.

[Mad Manny]

Ihave been driving my 1944 Hilux 2400D for the past two days so I have strong views on this.

I'll reply later...

[BushWacker]

Its not really about old vs new
its about simple vs complex.
Thats why 1Hz Cruisers, 300Tdi Defenders, Patrols etc
are favoured and valued:
Hardy, basic & simple, well earned reputations,
favourable records.
Old cars were built thicker , heavier stronger
in an age of quality and designed for endurance.
Mod cars are more consumer type items.

That said there's great tech advances in more modern cars.
'Old' cars often used to overheat in African conditions eg
newer more efficient radiator cores are far more effective , so too starters, solenoids, alternators etc
(yes even Denso !) but you cant buy cheap junk.

[Ricof4e]

Ihave been driving my 1944 Hilux 2400D for the past two days so I have strong views on this.

I'll reply later...

Is that the spitfire model?

[jakeslouw]

Its not really about old vs new
its about simple vs complex.

This ^^^

Although, I wouldn't do any extended trip on anything with leaf springs all round. Coils don't break like old leafs.

The ultimate overlander/bug-out vehicle is one of the following:

- Disco 1 TDi
- Defender TDi
- Gelandewagen 300D
- LC 70/80 with a 1HZ or maybe even a 1HD

Having had several "new gen" vehicles on extended ownership, the LAST thing I need is anything with aging integrated electronics on a long trip.
Because from LOTS of personal experience, diagnosing old work-hardened copper circuits on a new gen vehicle is NOT lekker, fast, or easy........

[Trolly Fan]

A modern vehicle that can cross a river at a reasonable wade depth without the alternator packing up would be good for me.
But eventually modern vehicles with kilometers of wires and multiple ECUs will get old too.
All wires go old. All old copper circuits eventually need replacement.
Maintaining them into their old age will be a nightmare.

Old vehicles can therefore be a good proposition, but only because they are simpler to maintain into their old age.
I am fanatical about maintenance, and may have spent more than what some decent modern vehicles would have cost me.
So driving an old vehicle that is truly reliable is not necessarily a cheaper proposition.

Provisos: After good maintenance, then add to my travel kit: belts, spare alternator, spare starter, pipe fixing tape, blou draad, bind draad and some tools, and I have peace of mind. Pipes don't burst before 15 years, and you can inspect them before a trip. They all eventually burst though.

But, as a non mechanically minded person, it took me years and some painful school fees before I got to acquire the necessary sills, and know and eventually trust the old lady I am touring with.
Today, I would not replace my touring GQ for any modern off road vehicle.

[BushWacker]

... if one has a problem with a headlight on an
old Defender , can remove, dissemble it in 5-15mins
and change a (filament) bulb, clean or replace the
the reflector , clean, replace (or even glue !) the glass
and do a McGyver on the wiring perhaps.

On the D3s ( and anything later ?) one must remove the whole v. large headlight assembly and replace it ;
takes less than 2 minutes , to remove and refit
the large unit assemblage ( order from 1 of a few suppliers)
and/but it costs a fortune. (circa R3000-R4000 for 1)

Ive replaced my Defenders lights with sealed LED units ( R750 ea... for better beams ! / The 20 yr old units were still 'working'!)
so if I go remote or across border would need carry
a few bulbs or, perhaps, the old filament 'discoid' assemblage as a spare else a spot etc

[Saxj]

I must say that I prefer newish vehicles that have been properly maintained. I prefer not to have to work on vehicles while I'm on holiday.
The worst I have had to do, while on holiday, is clean flying ants out of an air filter, because my snorkel head was facing forwards.